Aed/Heth/Beth/Head, possibly also known as "AEthelred", alias Hugh

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"The annals of Ulster record that, in 920, Armagh was plundered by Godfrey, son of Ivor, the Dane, but that he spared the son of Canmore and St. Margaret—Ethelred, earl of Fife, and hereditary lay-abbot of the Ouldee monastery of Dunkeld."

No such entry.

920 is 150+ years before Ethelred was even born.
Armagh is in Ireland, not Scotland.
Everything after "he spared" is a misquote.
The actual year was 921.

U921.8
Ard Macha [Armagh, in Ireland] was invaded by the foreigners of Áth Cliath, i.e. by Gothfrith [Godfrey] grandson of Ímar [Ivar, Ivor], with his army, on the fourth of the Ides 10th of November, the Saturday before the feast of Martin, and the prayer-houses with their complement of culdees and sick he spared from destruction, and also the monastery, save for a few dwellings which were burned through carelessness. They harried widely on all sides, westwards to Inis Ua Labrada [O'Laverty's Island, not otherwise identified], eastwards to the Banna [river in Ulster], and northwards to Mag Ilesen [place not identified]. But Muirchertach son of Niall [Irish king of Ailech, of the Ui Neill kindred] and Aignert son of Murchad [another Irish king?] came upon the force that had gone north, defeating them, and they left many dead behind, only a few escaping in the dim light of dusk.

This doesn't have much to do with Scotland, except that Muirchertach's paternal grandmother was a daughter of Kenneth MacAlpin (Kenneth I).

Mccann or mccanna son of wolf cub is also belived to be a armagh sept i think maven

Source of the bad quote appears to be an article on the Culdees in the The International cyclopedia: a compendium of human knowledge..., Volume 4, page 511.

This part, "The annals of Ulster record that, in 920, Armagh was plundered by Godfrey, son of Ivor, the Dane, but that he spared", is near the *top* of the page. The reference to Ethelred is near the *bottom* of the page, in a completely different context. (Note: the "Ethelred charter" was *not* dated "1120", but somewhere between 1093 and 1107. His brothers Alexander and David are referred to as just "his brothers" - this is particularly relevant because Alexander's regnal dates are 1107-1124.)

Annotations to "The history ... of the sheriffdoms of Fife and Kinross, by Robert Sibbald" suggest that the controversial "insuper comes de Fyfe" was an error of a different kind - not "formerly", but an incorrect expansion of an abbreviation "in com. de Fyfe" [in the county of Fife] - referring, perhaps, to the location of Dunkeld Abbey.

Considering that charters were drawn up in Gaelic at this period and then translated into Latin, there is at least some margin for error.

Jacqueli I also spent an hour on a wild goose chase through the Ulster Annals trying to find where you'd got that reference to Ethelred as Thane of Fife - 920 seemed bizarre, but you'd insisted it was there and that we find it.
It took me to midnight & I won't be doing that again.

PLease, in future, if you want us to include a source you've discovered in our discussion - Check that it is valid first and quote it from the original.

=The annals of Ulster record that, in 920, Armagh was plundered by Godfrey, son of Ivor, the Dane, but that he spared the son of Canmore and St. Margaret—Ethelred, earl of Fife, and hereditary lay-abbot of the Ouldee monastery of Dunkeld= Is not valid.

Could it have been a Google snippet or something like?

"The annals of Ulster record that, in 920, Armagh was plundered by Godfrey, son of Ivor, the Dane, but that he spared the oratories with the C. and the sick."

Later on the same page:

They [the Culdees] had grants lands or immunities from all the kings of the Scots who reigned between 1039 and 1053, the roll of these royal benefactors being headed by the renowned MacBeth (1039-56) and his wife Gruoch, the daughter of Bodhe. They had a grant of a church from each of the three bishops who ruled the see of St. Andrews between 1040 and 1098 ; and about 1120 they had a grant of lands from one of the sons of king Malcolm Canmore and St. Margaret—Ethelred, earl of Fife, and hereditary lay-abbot of the Culdee monastery of Dunkeld."

-- Library of Universal Knowledge: A Reprint of the Last (1880) Edinburgh and London Edition of Chambers's Encyclopaedia, with Copious Additions by American Authors, vol. 4, p. 511

https://books.google.com/books?id=_Lw4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA511&lpg...

That's why you *don't* use Google snippets as sources - they are *far* less reliable than Wikipedia.

Did anyone besides me get a chuckle of the statement that all of the Scottish kings who reigned between 1039 and 1053 donated to the Culdees, immediately followed by a statement that MacBeth who reigned 1039 to 1056 was the first? Must be a pretty short list ;)

Leaving that aside, the striking bit in this passage is the date of 1120 for a grant by Ethelred because it implies he was still alive. I've been grousing about the date 1098 but mostly unconcerned about it. Now I'm automatically skeptical about 1120.

Typoman, the little demon who plagues typists and printers, must have been very active when that page was set! :-D

The list probably *should* have started with Malcolm II, who per the "Book of Deer" gave a "king's share" in Biffie and in Pett Meic-Gobraig to the Culdees. Other names in the same paragraph:
Comgall mac Éda
Moridac mac Morcunn
Matain mac Caerill
Cú Líi mac Batín
Domnall mac Giric
Mal-Brigte mac Chathail
Cathal mac Morcunt
Domnall mac Ruadrí [brother of Findlaech?]
Mal-Colum mac Culéon
[Malcolm II]
Mal-Colum mac Moíl-Brigte [the other "King Malcolm"]
Mal-Snecte mac Luloing [Gruoch's grandson]
Domnall mac Meic-Dubbacín
Cathal [no other name]
Cainnech mac Meic-Dobarcon & Cathal [co-donors]
Domnall & Cathal [co-donors]

(More interesting notes here: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G102007/text001.html)

Final notation (translated): David king of Scots, to all his good men, greetings. You are to know that the clergy of Deer are to be quit and immune from all lay service and improper exaction, as is written in their book, and as they proved by argument at Banff and swore at Aberdeen. Wherefore I strictly enjoin that no-one shall dare to do any harm to them or to their goods. Witness, Gregory bishop of Dunkeld. Witness, Andrew bishop of Caithness. Witness, Samson bishop of Brechin. Witness, Donnchad earl of Fife and Mal-Moire of Atholl and Gille-Brigte earl of Angus, and Gille-Coimded son of Aed, and Bróiccín, and Cormac of Turriff, and Adam son of Ferdomnach, and Gille-Aindrias son of Maitne; at Aberdeen.

> Typoman

I thought the same but I found the same text half a dozen places online under different publication names and dates ranging from 1880 to 1910.

Problem must have been a bit wider.

Who was this Cathal person?
Were Domnall and Cainnech brothers or other relatives? Were they related to Cathal?

Another transliteration yields the name "Domnall mac Meic-DubHacín ", which is even *more* interesting.

I can't identify this Cathal without more info.

mac Meic-DubHacín calls to mind Dufagan. Mormaer of Angus.

Lawrie (the Early Scottish Charters guy) is of the opinion that Cathal, Domanll and Cainnech were three brothers, which would make them *all* "mac Meic-Dub(b/h)acín".

One Rev. Thomas MacLauchlan, in an essay on "Gaelic literature, language and music" included in "HISTORY OF THE SCOTTISH HIGHLANDS, HIGHLAND CLANS AND HIGHLAND REGIMENTS, edited by John S. Keltie, F.S.A. (Scot.), in discussing the "Book of Deer", attempted to derive "Dobarcon" from "Dobharcu", supposedly meaning "otter". Except...that's the *modern* word. The pre-modern Dobhar-Chú was a *large* hairy water monster which attacked people.

Resorting to O Corrain & Maguire, "Irish Names", I find:

Dubacan, Dubhagan = "little dark lad" (south of Ireland);
Dubcenn, Dubgenn, Duibhgenn, Duigeann = "black-haired person" (found in Munster and Ossory)

Note the explicit connection with Dub, Dubh = "black".

Cainnech is not the same name as Cinaed (which O & M think is Pictish in origin). No meaning is assigned, but four saints (male) and a daughter of a high-king by that name are noted.

I said Dufagan, Mormaer of Angus, but I see this in Scots Peerage:

(3-2) Douglas, after Macduff, inserts a Duffagan as Earl of Fife, but while a 'Dufagan comes' appears as a witness to the charter to Scone by King Alexander I., it is more probable he was of Angus, rather than of Fife. The editor of the _Complete Peerage_ makes Beth the first Earl of Fife. As 'Beth comes' he heads the seven Earls who witness the foundation charter of Scone, and is also a witness to the charter by King Alexander I., granting the privilege of holding courts (_Liber Eeclesia de Scon._, 4, 9). Nothing more is known of him, and the same remark applies to 'Ed. comes' or 'Head comes,' who appears as a witness to King David's charter of confirmation to the Abbey of Dunfennline, circa A.D. 1128 (_Reg. de Dunfermelyn_, 4) (which charter is probably not altogether genuine), and to the same King's charter of confirmation to the same abbey of the shire of Kircalden (_Ibid._, 16). He is only mentioned here, as it has been suggested (_Complete Peerage_, s. v. Fife) that he was Earl Ethelred, and 'contemporary with Earl Beth, and with Earl Constantine his successor,' thereby making confusion worse confounded.

https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun04pauluoft#page/2/mode/2up

That article on the Culdees seems to have propagated from one Cyclopedia to another - it is also found in teh Columbian Cyclopedia (1890) and Chambers' Encyclopedia (1862), verbatim. So it was copypasted all over the place in the 19th century.

Yep, that's what I'm seeing too.

Now to figure out whether there really was such a grant about 1120 and whether it was by Ethelred or Aed or ???

Half the time these scholarly persons are making Wild Mass Guesses. "Beth comes" was ASS-umed to be "Earl of Fife" purely because of name order.

The listed earls are:

Beth
Gospatrick brother of Dolfin (not specifically named earl, associated with Dunbar)
"Mallus" (Malise, Mael Isu, Strathearn)
Madach (aka Maddad, Atholl)
"Rothri" (Fordun says Mar)
Gartnach (variously Buchan or Mar)
Dufagan (ASS-umed to be Angus, may have been Fife)

Moray is conspicuously missing from the list, and if Dufagan is Fife, so is Angus.

Lawrie dates the charter to "circa 1120" and notes that it may be spurious. (The person Alexander "nepos" of King Alexander is not known from any other source.)

That last reference was to a charter for Scone Abbey, extant in at least two copies, variously dated as 1114/15 (Medlands), 1120 (Lawrie and others), and 1114-1122 (People of Medieval Scotland). Its authenticity has been questioned.

Looks like "somebody" took her marbles and went away mad. :-O

Maven, do you have a link to Lawrie so I can see the specific charter?

This is from one of *your* links, Justin - adjusted to the relevant page(s):

https://archive.org/stream/earlyscottishcha00lawruoft#page/28/mode/2up

That's as good a way to show which one you mean as any ;)

However, I think we must be talking about two different charters. The passage I quoted above says it is a grant by Ethelred about 1120 to some Culdees.

I thought you were talking about the same charter, but couldn't find it. You must have been talking about something different because the one you've pointed me to is a charter from Alexander I. I saw this one as I was browsing but skipped over it because it wasn't from Ethelred.

There is no charter from Ethelred in 1120. Period.

I suspect somebody mashed up Alexander's Scone charter with Ethelred's earlier Lochleven charter.

It might be time to pull together what we know about Ethelred based on the many fragmented discussions, and to source each statement. Something like this:

1. Ethelred was the 3rd son of Malcolm III and St. Margaret. [Maybe insert some of the text from Sir David Dalyrymple about how Margaret chose the names, 1st son after her father, 2nd son after her grandfather, 3rd son after he great grandfather, 4th son after her brother, 5th son after Pope Alexander, 6th son after the biblical King David.]

* I think Maven had a good link for a source that listed and described all the different birth orders ascribed to Ethelred.

* Sir David Dalrymple, Annals of Scotland (1819), 23: https://books.google.com/books?id=5DJkAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA47&lpg=...

2. He was probably born about [whatever] and certainly not earlier than 1070. [Insert Maven's explanation of Malcolm and Margaret's marriage date, combined with him being a younger child.]

3. He was Abbot of Dunkeld. He was so named in a charter to the church of St. Serf's dated about 1093 [or some other date], when he must have been at least 14 but was probably under 21. His brother Edmund and an unknown Maddock comes were witnessed to that charter. Although opinion is split about whether this office was lay or clerical, he might have been lay abbot of Dunkeld like his great grandfather Crinan.

* Sir James Balfour Paul, Scots Peerage (1907), Vol. 4, p. 3: https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun04pauluoft#page/2/mode/2up

* Sir Archibald C. Lawrie, Early Scottish Charters (1905), pp. 11-12, 244: https://archive.org/stream/earlyscottishcha00lawruoft#page/244/mode...

4. He was the earliest known Earl of Fife. He was so named in the same charter to the church of St. Serf's dated about 1093 [or some other date] and in a later confirmation dated to 1107.

* Sir Archibald C. Lawrie, Early Scottish Charters (1905), pp. 11-12, 243-46: https://archive.org/stream/earlyscottishcha00lawruoft#page/242/mode...

* Discussion: http://www.geni.com/discussions/151661?msg=1057491

5. His relationship to earlier and later rulers in Fife is unknown.

* Sir James Balfour Paul, Scots Peerage (1907), Vol. 4, pp. 1-3: https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun04pauluoft#page/viii/mod...

6. He apparently died before 1098, when his next brother Edgar became king, and certainly before 1107, when his brothers David and Alexander and his successor Constantine, Earl of Fife confirmed Ethelred's earlier gift to St. Serf's.

* Sir James Balfour Paul, Scots Peerage (1907), Vol. 4, p. 3: https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun04pauluoft#page/2/mode/2up

* Sir Archibald C. Lawrie, Early Scottish Charters (1905), pp. 11-12, 243-46: https://archive.org/stream/earlyscottishcha00lawruoft#page/242/mode...

What else do we know that seems to be certain or almost certain and not just an interpretation?

Fordun (V, 24 ; i, 223 ; cf. i, 426) thought that Æthelred was buried at St Andrews.

The earliest explicit statement I find that Æthelred had no children is Chronicle of Huntingdon, redacted 1291

* http://www.geni.com/discussions/151727?msg=1058120

* Alan Orr Anderson, Early Sources of Scottish History (1922), Vol. 2, p. 28: https://archive.org/stream/earlysourcesofsc02ande#page/28/mode/2up

>Fordun (V, 24 ; i, 223 ; cf. i, 426) thought that Æthelred was buried at St Andrews.

The way the Royal remains were shuffled around, he may have started out there and been reinterred at Dunfermline (they seem to think he's in *their* turf: http://www.royaldunfermline.com/Resources/royal_sepulchre.pdf) at some later date (1105?).

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