Aed/Heth/Beth/Head, possibly also known as "AEthelred", alias Hugh

It will take me some time to read through all of this, but - off the top of my head I think that the minimum that may have to be kept open as options here are - a profile for Margaret's son; and a profile for the husband of Lulach's daughter.

If we cannot prove definitively that they were the same person, then we will have to decide whether the preponderance of facts we do have are sufficient to make the call.
We also have to try to create profiles that can be locked in order to block spurious lines being added in addition to the version we decide on or we end up back here on a monthly basis.

Remember too, that first hand sources are few at this level of the tree, and the absence of a first hand source isn't proof -on its own - that a person didn't exist.

Let's start with: Heth De Ros, Earl of Ross?
Managers of Áed, Mórmaer of Moray - Maarit Birgitta From James Edward Swiger Private User & Private User
come & jump in here to help us figure this one out.
First - what are the sources that validate this profile?

Mackay clan tradition is the Source I can find::
(cf also Discussion on Tul: http://stage.geni.com/discussions/151554)

(below):http://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getpe..., which cites:
* Kings & Queens, Neil Grant, (pub 2003 by HarperCollinsPublishers Hammersmith London W6 8JB), p10 (Reliability: 3)
* Pedigrees of the Scottish Clans, John D McLaughlin, (http://members.aol.com/lochlan4/pedigree.htm), Genealogy of the Clan Duff (Reliability: 3)

=King lulach (Lulach mac Gille Coemgáin, King of Scots) married Fionghuala, daughter of Sinel, Mormaor of Angus. They had two children , Mael-Snechtai, afterwards, provincial King of Moray, and Princess Olith (some say "Tul" (Tul / Olith, of Moray)). The details of Lulach's enthronement and coronation at Scone Abbey in August 1057 are the first actually recorded in Scottish and Irish annals. He is believed to be one of the first Scottish kings who was actually crowned at his enthronement- since enthronement on the Stone of Destiny rather than crowning was the legal act of king-making in Scotland. Crowning was a later development.

Mael-Snechtai laid claim to the Scottish Throne in 1078, and the Anglo-Saxon chronicles report that King Mael-Coluim III raided Mael-Schectai's compound , seized his mother, Queen Dowager Fionghuala, and all his possessions. Mael-Schechtai himself, barely escaped. Now ruined, he entered a monastery where he died unmarried in 1085. Some writers suggest Mael-Schechtai may have been forced into a monastery by Mael-Coluim III. Mael-Schechtai's sister, Olith, married, according to Mackay tradition, her own cousin, Aedh, Mormaor of Ross (Áed, Mórmaer of Moray), who according to Michael Mackay, was a male-line cousin of the late King Lulach descended from King Lulach's grand-uncle, Prince Domnall mac Ruaridh of Moray. Aedh succeeded Mael-Snechtai as Mormaor (not king) of Moray. He appears to have lived at peace with King Mael-Coluim's family, since he witnessed several royal charters. Aedh and Princess Olith had three sons. These sons revived their uncle's claim to the Scottish Throne. The eldest of these, Oengus, took the title of King of Moray on his father's death, and led an army south into Scotland proper in 1130. There he was slain -some say in single combat with a Norman knight- at the Battle of Inchbare. His brother MaelColuim , Earl of Ross, fought and was imprisoned by King Mael-Coluim IV. This king also expelled the Moray royal family from Moray, along with most of Morays' native inhabitants in a campaign which was conducted over about five years.

The family resettled in Strathnaver, Sutherland where they founded a clan named Clan Aedh (sometimes referred to as Clan Morggan- Lulach's royal ancestor). The present Chief of Clan Aedh, Lord Hugh Mackay of Reay, is the legal representative of King Lulach's family, although his DNA has not yet been tested. The Chiefs of Clan Gregor (MacGregor) and Finguine (Mackinnon) are descended in the male line from Bishop Cormac of Dunkeld, who, according to the Irish Annals of Tigernach, was a great/great-grandson of King MacBeatha=

In the absence of original Sources, Mackay clan tradition must suffice, if there are no rival clan traditions. (McKee's tradition that Lulach’s daughter married Malcolm’s son, Ethlred tha Abbot of Dunkeld – seems much less likely, if we assume the evidence points to the Abbot having been unmarried and childless: Will discuss next. )

That being so, then the Earl of Ross is not the son of Malcolm III, 'Canmore', King of Scots and I am disconnecting this relationship, pending sources which say that one of Malcolm’s sons was the Earl of Ross)

Two of the three children presently positioned as those of the Earl of Ross & Tull Gille Míchéil MacDuff, Earl of Fife- NN, father of Constantine 'Dufagan', (all 3 presently unsourced) contradict the 3 sons govern above: two of whom are named Oengus,King of Moray and MaelColuim, Earl of Ross.

I'm assuming that Malcolm II Macheth , Jarl of Ross (Malcolm MacEth, Earl of Ross) is Maelcoluim, Earl of Ross - and adjusting the name accordingly - pending better sources.

One of the other two might be the 3rd son, unnamed in the MacKay source above, but until their managers provide sources we can't know.

I don't think it will be possible for me to come up to speed quickly enough to contribute much to this discussion, but I can offer some older information.

Lords Lyon Sir Thomas innes of Learney (1893-1971) and Albany Herald Sir Iain Moncreiffe of that Ilk (1919-1985) both accepted the traditional claim that Clan MacDuff is descended from Aethelred (Aedh), a disinherited son of Malcolm Canmore.

Many of these old traditions have been challenged by people like John Bannerman. I think we have to take more recent scholarship over the older material.

Grabbing two easy examples off the shelf --

Innes of Learney says "MacDuff is the patronymic of the first or Celtic Earls of Fife. Ethelred, son of King Malcolm Canmore, is the first recorded Earl of Fife. He was also Abbot of Dunkeld. Constantine was Earl of Fife in the early days of David's reign, and, dying about 1129, was succeeded by Gillimichel Mak-duf, or Son of Duff or Dufgan, probably his brother. The origin of these three Earls is unknown, but it is a significant fact that the genealogies for King Lulach and King Macbeth are headed "Genealogy of Clan Duff." (Tartans of the Clans and Families of Scotland, 1938).

Frank Adam (revised by Innes of Learney) says: "The kings of Fife, chiefs of a race intituled the "Clan MacDuff," claimed descent from Connall Cerr, a son of Eochaid Buidhe, King of the Picts. Their provincial kingdom was from about 1100 styled an earldom, which they set forth as held "By the grace of God" (i.e., allodially) and not from the King of Scots. Traditionally, "the Great MacDuff" was vanquisher of MacBeth and probably was a supporter of Malcolm Ceann-Mhor, and he is said to have name to the clan. Anyhow, Constantine MacDuff was Earl of Fife by 1107 (and probably succeeded a cousin or niece, spouse of Prince Ethelred, apparently in her right--since he could himself have had none--Earl of Fife)." (Clans, Septs & Regiments of the Scottish Highlands, 1970).

Scattered through all these old references is the story that Aethelred was the oldest son of Malcolm and Margaret. Given the Saxon name Aethelred from Margaret's family, the Gaelic form of his name was Aedh. Under Saxon rules he should have inherited as the eldest son, but under Gaelic rules of tanistry (appointment) he was passed over for the kingship, perhaps because of physical disability, and was instead made Abbot of Dunkeld, which was then the premier ecclesiastical benefice.

One of the supporting evidences of this tradition, according to Innes of Learney and Moncrieffe of that Ilk, is that the MacDuff coat of arms is the "original" Scottish royal coat of arms -- a gold shield with a red lion -- indicating that the MacDuffs are the senior branch of the family. The royal family, as a cadet line, difference the arms by adding the double treasure flory

Another of the supporting evidences is the existence of certain privileges called the "Law of Clan MacDuff". First, they have the right to crown King of Scots. This was the privilege asserted by Isabella MacDuff who crowned Robert the Bruce, and for which the English put her on display in a public cage. Second, they have the right to fight in the vanguard (most honorable position) of royal battles. Third, they have the right to remission of punishment for homicide on payment of a fixed fee.

It's perhaps the most minor of points but could we make sure we change Jarl of Ross to Mormaer of Ross? The titles Earl, Jarl, and Mormaer are roughly equivalent but represent three different cultures that come together in medieval Scotland.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormaer_Beth suggests, as well, that the Beth in the Charter granted to Scone priory might have been this Aedh, Mormaer of Ross & Moray.

Sorry, cross posted.

On the second - Yes - I made sure I changed that right away :-)

An old theory -- I don't know the current level of acceptance -- is that the royal family of Scotland was alternating the kingship between two branches of the royal family, until Malcolm Canmore. Seems dicey to me, but the idea is that Duncan, the representative of one branch was properly succeeded by MacBeth, the representative of the other. But then Duncan's son Malcolm Canmore with his English ways overthrew, not just MacBeth, but the entire Gaelic order of society, establishing primogeniture for the succession (along with many other Saxon innovations).

On the Macduff line - such really interesting stuff, thank you - coincidentally I was just reading up and thinking that we need a project for the Thanes of Fife.

I know about the Clan MacDuff privilege of crowning kings from 'Macbeth', the play. This is why Macduff's refusal to attend Macbeth's crowning at Scone is significant. (I seem to recall one of the films showing him deliberately crowning himself.) And, of course, Macduff is "the Thane of Fife who had a wife - where is she know" that Lady Macbeth wails about.

In reality, Gruoch (Lady Macbeth)- herself is of Clan MacDuff: hence =the genealogies for King Lulach and King Macbeth are headed "Genealogy of Clan Duff."= (although I can't figure out how Macbeth is in the MacDuff genealogy - perhaps because he's Lulach's father's cousin?)

I understand that the Macduff coat of arms indicates precedence: King Duff MacMalcolm (the ancestor of Clan MacDuff) was the older brother and earlier king than his younger brother, King Kenneth II MacMalcolm (the ancestor of Malcolm Canmore & of Macbeth)
But I don't understand how this proves anything about Ethelred, if Lulach himself is a MacDuff.
As a son of Malcolm Canmore - Ethelred isn't a MacDuff.

Crossposted again, sorry. I had to stop and break up an hierarchical fight between my Macaw and Cockatoo over the top branch of the tree!!

No, the theory isn't odd at all. If you look at the family tree from the two brothers King Constantine MacKenneth I b c836 (f 3rd king) and King Aed MacKenneth I b c840 (fourth king) - you'll see that the kingship alternates exactly between these two family lines, all the way until Malcolm II. The kingship is due to go back to what is now the MacDuff line (Boite, Gruoch's father) when Malcolm II decides to name his grandson king instead.

This is why a child of Lady Macbeth (Boite MacDuff's daughter), when recognized by Macbeth (Another of Malcolm II's grandsons) as his heir - is viewed as a possible King in place of Malcolm Canmore.
Or this is how it seems to me, if you look at genealogy table as well as the geographical map.

What the focus on Macbeth as the usurped heir misses, is that it's actually the Macduff heir: Gruoch's male line, that has been usurped.

It all comes down to the parentage of Óengus - who challenges David I & is killed in 1130.
This profile for Angus mac Eth, Earl of Moray Angus, Mórmaer of Moray is positioned as the son of Ethelred.

Bringing us all the way back to Ethelred, Malcolm's son. Abbot of Dunkeld. Mistakenly called Earl of Fife in the same document as Constantine is named Earl of Fife.

As Maven says - these two profiles for him appear to be duplicates: Ethelred, Lay Abbot of Dunkeld and Ethelred, Lay Abbot of Dunkeld

Is he the man who marries Lulach's daughter?
-Wikipedia says he died as a cluniac monk in Somerset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethelred_of_Scotland, Frustratingly they do not cite a Source.

Is he the Earl named Aed or 'Heth' who witnesses royal charters early in the 1100s who may also have been based in Moray?
- We have his death c 1097, although I can’t see an original source for that.
- The Chronicle of John of Fordun says that Ethelred "as some assert…lies buried in St Andrew´s church at Kilremont" – Now this is in Fife, far from Moray.
- “Dying as a cluniac monk in Somerset “ is even more difficult – as Somerset is in England. Perhaps the football ground, Somerset Park in Scotland was named Somerset in medieval times – but even then, it’s in Ayr, even further from Moray.

Thanks Jaqueli - crossposting. Going to look at that now.
It looks as though it comes directly from the Wikipedia article.

Constantine MacDuff is cited as "comes" of Fife in *the very charter* whose mistranslation/misinterpretation gave rise to the tradition that Ethelred mac Malcolm had ever held Fife - there is a second name missing from the header, which *should* have read "Edelradus vir venerandae memoriae filius Malcolmi Regis Scotiae, Abbas de Dunkeldense et insuper [Constantinus] Comes de Fyf".

That is, the charter is a *joint* gift of Prince-Abbot Ethelred *and* Earl Constantine.

"Constantinus Comes de Fyf" was a witness and signatory to *that very same charter*.

And THAT confusion is what led to mashing up Ethelred with the mysterious Aed/Heth/Beth who was mormaer of Moray and/or Ross (*not* Fife) in the time of Alexander I and David I (younger brothers of Ethelred). Assigning him to Fife based on signature position was a Bad Guess.

Wikipedia seems to have gotten Ethelred momentarily mixed up with his older brother Edmund, joint usurper of the Scottish throne with uncle Donald Bane (Donald III). *Edmund* was dethroned and clapped into a Cluniac cloister, said by some to be in Somerset - but since this was Donald's second usurpation, he was blinded so that he could never try again (blindness being a disability that excluded one from the throne) and imprisoned.

Ethelred seems to have stayed out of the whole mess (he is not reported to have participated on any side at any time) and to have been quite content with Dunkeld.

It is not clear to me how the misattribution of Fife led to the confusion with the Aed/Beth Mormaer of Moray?

Okay - dumping Somerset :-)

"Beth" (one of the known variants of this person's name" was listed simply as "comes" on a charter of Alexander I (1107-1124). *Because* his signature was first among the witnesses, it was ASS-umed that he was the ruler of Fife.

Misreading the 1095 charter had given rise to the ASS-umption that Ethelred was ruler of Fife.

It was a very small misstep to another ASS-umption that Ethelred = Beth.

But "Beth" equates more readily to "Heth" or "Aedh", who signed a couple of charters in King David I's time (starting 1124; Aed disappears from the records by 1130).

Malcolm MacHeth laid claim to the earldom of Moray, allegedly (per John of Fordun) by fibbing that he was the son of Oengus of Moray. He raised rebellion against David I, and was defeated and imprisoned until c. 1156, when internal and external strife caused Malcolm IV to enlist him as an ally by giving him the province of Ross (which had been part of Moray) for an earldom.

He has been thought to be, and not to be, the same person as Máel Coluim mac Alaxandair, a non-marital son of Alexander I. Current thought is that they were two different people, conflated due to the over-popularity of the name "Malcolm" (Malcolm macAlasdair, Malcolm macHeth, Malcolm macEanruig (Malcolm IV), et alia....).

=Misreading the 1095 charter had given rise to the ASS-umption that Ethelred was ruler of Fife.It was a very small misstep to another ASS-umption that Ethelred = Beth=
*I just don't see the step where Ethelred = Beth. And Fife, isn't a connection that makes sense.

*Anyhoo - I think we've given it enough time to remove Fife from the profile altogether. That seems completely uncontested.
Next step: merge the two profiles that you correctly identified as duplicates - of Abbot Ethelred ( three, if we include yours).
I'm only not doing that yet because I don't want to lose all the false children, before we reattribute them. (I just want to have sourced all the assumptions about the Moray line children first- because this is where, I think, they're probably going to fit.)

=Malcolm MacHeth laid claim to the earldom of Moray, allegedly (per John of Fordun) by fibbing that he was the son of Oengus of Moray. He raised rebellion against David I, and was defeated and imprisoned until c. 1156, when internal and external strife caused Malcolm IV to enlist him as an ally by giving him the province of Ross (which had been part of Moray) for an earldom.
He has been thought to be, and not to be, the same person as Máel Coluim mac Alaxandair, a non-marital son of Alexander I. Current thought is that they were two different people, conflated due to the over-popularity of the name "Malcolm" (Malcolm macAlasdair, Malcolm macHeth, Malcolm macEanruig (Malcolm IV), et alia....).=

Taking this over to the Discussion on Malcolm Macheth Sources:
http://stage.geni.com/discussions/151557

The current Ethelred profile isn't, or at least isn't intended to be, a duplicate of anybody.

It took a bit of digging, but I finally found out why the house of Dunkeld isn't counted as belonging to the mac meic Duib (MacDuffs).

>>They were not descended from King Dubh, but from his brother.(King Kenneth II).<<

And *only* direct male-line descendants of Dubh counted as mac meic Duib.

Yes. I think I said that a page or so ago :-)

Nope, I didn't. I meant to, but I actually explained at a node higher up on the family tree I'm staring at.

*Kenneth I & Donald I are brothers
all of their sons are kings one after the other, but Donald I's king line peters out

*Then Kenneth I's gr grandson, Malcolm I has two sons:
Duff & Kenneth II, who are both kings one after the other
Their lines alternate as kings until Kenneth's Dunkeld line tries to eliminate the Duff heir:

* Finally, Duff's gr gr gr gr grandson, Oengus, is beaten out of the game by Kenneth II's gr gr gr grandson, David.

Game of thrones over - for the timebeing :-)

Half past midnight here. Going to bed.
You'll need to post profile links, Jacqueli, if you want me to understand.

"Game of Thrones", indeed! Gaining and keeping the throne of Scotland was a blood sport. :-)

:-)

I'm merging the Abbot Ethelreds this morning. A children mess is about to occur. Mentally prepare.... :-)