Alice Beaufort (Percy) - Parentage, Spouse, Children

Started by Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator on Friday, July 10, 2015
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7/10/2015 at 12:17 PM

Alice Percy did not marry John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset and have a child Joan Wilcockes

Please do not follow the information from the Smart Matches they contain wrong information according to multiple other references.

7/10/2015 at 1:45 PM

@ So who did Alice Percy marry? Did she have a daughter named Jean Beaufort you married William Wilcox ?

Carol

Jean Beaufort is my 15th Great grandmother. I would like to view your profile of Jean Wilcox (Beaufort). I have jean as the daughter of Alice Beaufort (Percy) and John Beaufort. I would like to know if you have a source of the marriage between Alice Percy and John Beaufort that occurred in 1395 at Alnwick, England. Alice Percy is the daughter of Thomas Percy & Alice Fitz Alan Locke borne in 1410 in Hereford, England.

Thanks.

Andrew
The link to Jean/Joan (Beaufort) Wilcockes is entered in the above post, you need only to click on the name to new the profile.

I have seen no source/reference for Jean/Joan Beaufort being the dau. of Alice (Percy) & John Beaufort, & I have also not seen a source/reference for these other relationships.

Looking through the Smart Matches for Alice Beaufort there are relationships that are not correct.

The correct relationships can be found for John Beaufort 1st Earl of Somerset on his profile, none of which list a wife Alice, he did have a dau. with wife Margaret Holland, named Joan and she was married to James Stewart and died July 15, 1445.

Andrew, do you have references/sources about Alice Percy? I was not able to find anything but personal trees that have copied the same false information for her.

I would be glad to connect Joan Wilcockes to parents, whether it be Alice (Percy) & John Beaufort, if you can show me the references with who they are.

7/10/2015 at 2:53 PM

Currently all I have is Trees on both Ancestry.com, Wiki and Geni.com.
I have Alice Percy as the daughter of Thomas Percy and Alice Fitz Alan but only from trees and not birth certificates or cemetery records. I will keep digging because this is the Wilcox link to John Gaunt Plantagenet son of Edward III.

Sorry, in the above post it should be click on the name to view the profile.

And if it were the Plantagenet line it should be well referenced.

Here is a sample of false information
http://ancestryforums.custhelp.com/posts/27652c74e0

7/10/2015 at 6:17 PM

Andrew Frederick Robinson, Jr. I agree with Carole. Never rely on compiled family trees as a source. Use them as a hint only.

For medieval & early modern families the best sources to use are wills, IPM's (Inquisitions post mortem), marriage licenses/pardons etc, Chancery and other equity suits, early parish registers (if they survive) etc. There are many transcripts/abstracts of these freely available on the web. For English lines the National Archives Discovery catalogue http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ is a goldmine.

The Herald's Visitations are ok as a secondary source but they have the same problem as other compiled family trees, they contain many errors and fabrications.

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html is a excellent website for English medieval genealogy.

7/10/2015 at 11:41 PM

I recently found a family tree which perports to connect Christopher (1569) to royalty when William Wilcockes (1410) married Jean Beaufort (1410), a decendent of various English and French Kings and Nobels.
The line runs: Christopher (1569), son of Thomas and unknown; Thomas (1535), son of Robert and unknown; Robert (1470) son of Thomas and unknown; Thomas (1450) son of WilliamWilcockes (1410) and Jean Beaufort (1410) daughter of John I Earl of DeBeaufort.
The connection, with so many "unknowns" seems to me to be tenuous at best.
Has anyone else been able to make this connection with any sort of documentation?
My Wilcox line is a Vermont line decending from Christopher, John, John, Ephraim, Janna, Ephraim, Luman, Ancil, Henry R., Herbert A., Bernard.
Anyone with interests in this line or information on the royalty connection, please e-mail me.
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/wilcox/5317/

Alan:I have replied to you in a private email, but this message is for other Genforum readers.I'm fairly certain this is a BOGUS claim.According to Douglas Richardson in Plantagenet Ancestry (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, 2004 p661:Joan Beaufort, eldest daughter (of John Beaufort Earl of Somerset).She married (1st) at St. Mary Overy's, Southwark, Surrey 2(or 13) Feb 1423/4 James I of Scotland.They had eight children.He was assassinated at Perth 21 Feb 1436/7 and buried there in the Carthusian Convent.His widow Joan married (2nd) by dispensation dated 21 Sept 1439 James Stewart, knight. They had three sons.Joan died at Dunbar 15 July 1445 and was buried beside her first husband.Sir James Stewart survived her. I have seen the family trees posted on Ancestry that have Joan (Jean) marrying William Wilcocks.If the widow of the King of Scotland had married William Willcocks, believe me there would be records, especially if they had children.I don't know who dreamed up this ancestry, but I believe it is completely groundless.If anybody has any proof besides family trees posted on Ancestry I would be happy to see it. I would also be very happy to see any proof (besides family trees posted on Ancestry) that Christopher Wilcox was the father of John Wilcox.
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/wilcox/5318/

7/10/2015 at 11:59 PM

Douglas Richardson's books are excellent. They are well sourced and mostly accurate. The best secondary source for Royal Ancestry.

7/11/2015 at 3:24 AM

Here is another post debunking the Wilcox connection to the Plantagenets:

Re: Wilcox/Plantagenet connection?
By Jim Fina January 22, 2011 at 12:29:09
In reply to: Wilcox/Plantagenet connection?
Alan Wilcox 1/19/11

I wasn’t able to find anything that might help connect John Wilcox, of Bury St. Edmunds, with an earlier William Wilcocke. But the premise that this William Wilcocke married “Jean Beaufort (1410-1445) daughter of John of Gaunt” is completely baseless. John ‘of Gaunt,’ Duke of Lancaster, did not have a daughter named ‘Jean’ by any of his wives or mistresses. Also, as he died 1398/99, it would have been impossible to have a daughter born eleven years later. That she was connected to the Plantagenet dynasty through John ‘of Gaunt’ seems to be more or less based on the incorrect assumption that anyone surnamed Beaufort had to be of this one particular family. In fact, there are over a dozen towns and villages in France alone named Beaufort from which numerous families in France and England took the surname de Beaufort (meaning of or from a place named Beaufort).

John ‘of Gaunt’ did have a daughter Joan (which arguably is a French form of the name Jean) by his then mistress (later wife) Catherine de Roet. But this Joan was born c.1079 and married (1) Robert de Ferrers. After his death she married (2) Ralph de Neville, Earl of Westmorland. Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland died 13 Nov 1440 and was never connected with anyone named Wilcocke. John, Duke of Lancaster had four illegitimate children by Catherine de Roet, three sons and the one daughter, all of whom were given the surname ‘Beaufort’ after one of their father's French estates. In 1396 John married his former mistress, Catherine, and the four children; John, Henry, Thomas and Joan were legitimized a year later by Parliament (Statute 20 Rec. II), with the provision none could inherit the crown.

I can easily provide source citations for all of the facts above, but as they’re only useful in debunking this part of the story and little else, I didn’t think it necessary to post them here. But I’d be happy to provide any or all if it would help in some way.

At any rate best of luck in tracing your John Wilcox. Even if you can eventually prove he was a descendant of William Wilcocke there is still no connection to the Plantagenets because her story can’t be proved. But carefully tracing and documenting (with solid evidence as you go) may lead you to another connection to English, French or other royalty. You should have typically six generations between the two, which is six wives to trace. Who knows where any of these connections might lead? It’s certainly a good incentive to keep looking. Just keep clear of the typically undocumented junk genealogy web pages that are all over the Internet. Good information is often available if you learn to look in the right places.

Jim

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/plantagenet/1633/

I also spent a couple of hours this evening looking for sources for a Wilcox/Beaufort connection and found nothing.

7/11/2015 at 1:27 PM

Thank you for your hard work on this. I added Jean Beaufort to the project http://www.geni.com/projects/Spurious-Pedigrees/10512 to help make the unwary more aware of this internet legend.

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