Exploring the Charlton Snarlton

not really familar with the line of my 23-25 great grandparebts Private User to make any sort of acurate repair job

I agree - it looks like quite a snarl! But, if anyone can resolve it, i believe it's you! Discovered the most interesting thing (to me!) though: Ela la Zouche is both my aunt (marriage to Alan Cherleton) & my grandmother (marriage to Nicholas St Maur).
Will look forward to your future posts!

Patience, grasshopper....

The dating on William Charleton gets problematical. He could, and perhaps should, be backdated to c. 1470-1475, to give him time to *have* all those children - and to better match his wife. Or maybe the children's dates need to be moved to after 1500.

We're not on firm ground again until we come to William Charlton (Chorlton), MP William Charlton, Jr., MP http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/ch..., fourth of five? brothers. Somebody apparently WAGged the birthdates of the older children pretty hard as there are 25 years(!) between William and his oldest brother Robert.

The Charltons appear to have gone to the dogs (or to daughters) hard and fast in these years, for by 1567 William, MP's only heir was Elizabeth, daughter of William, son of Francis, son of Robert (older brother of William, MP).

One of William's brothers, Alan, took himself out of the gene pool by becoming a Catholic priest. William himself had no children. What about the other one/two? (Note: Alan has been erased from the family pedigrees, but he appears in contemporary documents.)

John Charlton (third son, William MP's next-older brother) married Anne, widow of William Allen or Alen, and had one surviving son, Thomas Charlton of Shrewsbury, who married twice and had a son and a daughter by his first wife and another son by his second. But it looks very much as though only that daughter (Elizabeth Pope, m. Roger Pope of Lincoln's Inn) lived to grow up.

The line of Richard Charlton, second(?) brother, may have been tampered with. Robert Charlton, Fishmonger (later goldsmith), of Mincing Lane, London and Whitton Court, Salop (see: http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1660-1690/member/ch...) claimed a connection to Charlton of Apley, and had the money to make it so. But if he pulled a fast one, he had little good of it, for Job Charlton, MP was his only surviving son.

It looks as though the line WAS tampered with, because entries from the Register of (Rev.) Thomas Botelar, Vicar of Much Wenlock, do not match the Visitations.

"1538 Decbr 5 Wm son of Mr Richd Charlton Bailif of the franch'es was Christened Wm Charlton of Wombrige [this would be William, MP] brother of sd Richard and Sr [Rev] Alen Clif curate of Shipton and Mrs. Eliz. Eyton sister to sd. Ricd. and Wm. Chalrton, Gossibes [godparents]."

"1539 [no date] Cecilye daur of Mr Richd Charlton and Jone his wife xtned. Gosibbs T. Eyton Gent., Cecilye Norton sister to sd R[ichar]d and Mrs Cecilye Acton wife to Thos Acton Gent & daur of Mr Robt Cressett of Upton Cressett."

""12 March 1540-1. Thro lycens was christened at Wylley, Agnes
the daughter of Ric. Charlton of this towne of Wenlok and of
Jane his wife, gossibes were Sir Thomas Butler of Wenlok,
aforesaid Vicar, and mistress Agnes wif of Maistr Ric. Lacon,
Lord of Wylley aforesaid, and wif of Wm. Davys of Apley
Lode.

The Visitations admit of no William, no Cecily, and no Agnes.

Stephen Charleton has been fictitiously grafted onto this falsified tree, with a fictitious wife and a fictitious daughter.

On the subject of Sir Alan de Charlton, of Appley Castle and Alan de Charlton, II, it appears there really were two of him. Antiquities of Shropshire, Volume 9By Robert William Eyton, (pp. 56- 57, 316-317), details fines and other financial arrangements by which Alan de Charlton, *son of* Sir Alan de Charlton, and his wife Margery (FitzAer), traded some manors around and then "demised" his holdings back to his father for life. (Alan II really did have brothers John and Thomas also, but as no more is heard of them after these arrangements, they may have died without heirs.)

On the other hand, the same intensive studies of charters and arrangements indicates that there *were* Charltons in the Shrewsbury area for several generations prior to Alan and Alan, and that they were *not* Cauntelos.

I have a nasty feeling I know what became of Alan II's brothers. Alan II perished in the Black Death epidemic of 1348-49, and it may have taken his brothers also.

Well, this is interesting - the Visitations of London have an abbreviated version of the Charlton of Terne pedigree. It is given in two versions:

1) Starts with a Robert Charlton "of Terne in com. Salop", described as "a younger branch out of the house of Apley". No wife specified. Son Robert Charlton of Terne in com. Salop, married Alice daughter of Richard Tyler of Hardwick in com. Salop. Son (of Robert and Alice) Robert Charlton 2 Sonne of London now living 1633, married twice: first wife Emma da. of Thomas Harby of Adson esqr in comitatu Northampton - 2 sons, Job (who lived) and James (who did not), 3 daughters, Emma, Elizabeth, and Katherine. Second wife Anna da. of Richard Wiche of London merchant - 4 sons (Richard, Henry, Robert, Thomas; they all died), 1 daughter, Suzan.

Job, in fact, grew up to become http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1660-1690/member/ch... and start his own little dynasty of Charltons.

2) is shorter, because it starts with Robert Charlton and Alice Tyler, but it completely explodes any idea that Stephen Charlton, brother of Robert the goldsmith, could be the same person as Capt. Stephen Charlton of Virginia. Robert and Alice have 3 sons: Andrew Charlton of Terne (no wife or children mentioned), Robert Charlton of London merchant (see previous pedigree) and Stephen Charlton of London merchant living as of 1634, married to Elizabeth daughter of Robert Middleton of London brother to Sir Thomas Middleton (Lord) Mayor of London - 2 children, Robert and Elizabeth. (The "Thomas" who was "apprenticed" in 1623 must have either died or emigrated, because he isn't listed here.)

So there it is, folks: if Stephen Charlton "of Terne" was married to Elizabeth Middleton in 1634 and living in London with son Robert and daughter Elizabeth, he was *not* the same person as Capt. Stephen Charlton, who was living on the Eastern Shore of Virginia by the mid-1630s with a sister Grace (no Grace in that pedigree).

well finally something not about a egomanic with a power complex... good work

"Applause, applause! " (We need some icons on here) Maven, you are quite the "gravedigger"! Wonderful work!

Still working on the issue of the Charlton-Corbet marriage. Have ruled out "Mary Corbet daughter of Robert Corbet and Margaret not-born-a-Mallory" on the grounds of severe age mismatch in the wrong direction (older man, younger woman, yes - older woman, younger man, generally only for a second or later marriage, which this wasn't).

Robert had a younger brother, Roger, who tends to get left out of most accounts because he had no sons. He did have one daughter for certain (Margaret, who married Humphrey Stafford of Frome) - supposedly only the one, but who knows what further investigation might turn up?

Does anyone know if Oliver Marcus Stedall is still around? All the "Activity" I've seen on his page in the last year or so has been other people leaving notes on his page.

What's up is, he has a version of the "Charlton of Terne" tree, starting with Unknown Profile, but it has some variations (different name for his wife, middle names for descendants, etc.) and little or no explanation.

Found a string of Charltons of Middlesex who may, or may not, be connected to the Charltons of Apley and/or Terne:

Thomas Charlton of Hillingdon (Middlesex), MP, d. 1445 - father of

Thomas Charlton (c. 1417-1465), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Charlton_%28speaker%29 Speaker of the House of Commons, m. Benedicta Vernon - 2 sons, 3 daughters, including

Sir Richard Charleton, KB (before 1450-1485; killed at Bosworth; attainted of "treason" in one of Henry VII's shady legal maneuvers) - father of

John Charlton, living 1510, father of

Edward Charlton, living 1552, who petitioned for restitution in blood:

LR 15/153:

Letters patent exemplifying a writ of certiorari to John Mason, kt,
clerk of parliaments, and returned.
Tenor of an act of parliament, Westminster, 24 Nov 2 Edw VI [1548], in
second session 14 Mar 3 Edw VI [1549], on the restitution in blood of
Edward Charleton, gent. Writ tested at Westminster 26 Feb 6 Edw VI
[1552]. The act on petition of Edward Charleton, gent, son of John
Charleton, esq, son of Sir Richard Charleton, kt, attainted of high
treason, Henry VII. Returned 10 Mar 6 Edw VI [1552].
Note of examination by Richard Rede and Richard Lyell, clerks.

C 89/4/4

An act for the restitution in blood of Edward Charleton Act: 2 & 3 Edw
VI no 43

MA-R

We can be reasonably sure these were not Charltons of Apley, as that lot either kept their noses out of politics or backed the winning side.

Private User I think pro users and curators can see last active date

Private, Pro users cannot see the date. Oliver has not been on since January of 2014.