Canute the Great DNA

Really never heard of Gorm. He and his son Harald Bluetooth harrassest Europe for a very long time. Harald Bluetooth , his son, built the Viking fortresses. Among one that was just resently found last year.

Ha ha ha Ulf ...try this one :) Everyone keeps saying it is far more interesting to find relation to normal people in your tree. Through my Mother (my new line) I found an ancient path to a Giant, Frosti (not the snowman), Snow and a Sea King. There's nothing like finding a giant for an ancestor. lol These are interesting and entertaining Orkney sagas once you get to Norway and Finland. Some of it must be true for my ethnic origins on FTDNA match both my Mother and Father to a common ancestor in More Og Romsdal in Norway.
http://www.geni.com/path/Wanda+is+related+to+King-Fornjot-The-Ancie...
In any event I'll take Frosti, Snow and a Giant for Ancestor's any day. Makes a good story. lol

That Giant, could have been just 6 feet =1.8288 meters tall, in that time he would be of great or more than average height. Giant, 1: "An abnormally or extremely tall or large person" or 2: "An imaginary or mythical being of human form but superhuman size." It's all just a choice between nr. 1 or 2.

That is true Ulf, occasionally very tall people would be born in communities of average height or shorter people. I thought he was going to be an obscure ancient ancestor but I spoke too soon and he is not. I can't seem to get away from the same common ancestor's but at least I have a few more lines. It looks like only my Mother's Mother is going to be the only obscure line going back to people living in Barabara's and having no written History or language. I guess when you get down to it the only thing you find out in the end is that all your Ancestor's come from one or two people and they make a tapestry until they get to you. Sometimes the threads come back to weave into the same lines or least that is what I am finding with my Grandparent's Ancestors. Too bad they couldn't call him Frosti the Snowman or Frosti the Viking. lol

When you take the sagas the people descriped there often end up being giants. It makes for a fantastic story. What makes it even more fantastic is that it most likely have been taken from a real live person, made bigger and more fantastic, but still a person of flesh and blood.
A person that they back in the day admired highly.
That we now today have forgotten the thrue story or the story has changed to something unrecognizable, does not make the story less amazing.

Besided from that I can honostly say I was disapointed when I found out there was a lot of nobility and royalty in my bloodline. It was all laid out for me. Nothing new to discover!. Fortunately I was correctted in that department. Lots of the noble profiels lacked information and primary sources.

Heh - the reason why the mighty are so much in our ancient tree is that those are the people the sources talk about....
I stumbled across one branch in my tree where the family wasn't known for that reason ... the family was known because of the extensive protocols kept from when they were arrested for vagabondage..... but the vast majority of our pre-1700 ancestors will likely remain ever unknown for us....

Sound like something from my tree. He was executed, and put what we call "stejler og Hjul". I do not know how to translate that. But his body was scattered in different directions. His three brotheres was also in the legal papers because of numerous childrn born outsite of marriage, and other qarrels with the people!. Good thing it was in the beginning of the 1700.

It seems that that line of my family was more infamous than famous!.

We recently found out that one of our grandfathers had 20 children,
and he was not a king, outside the bedroom I guess.

So I guess good stories goes around also when it comes to common folk!

The thing is, we cannot take away a single direct ancestor since the beginning of the life's first sexual reproduction, we simply wouldn't had exist without each and all of them, and no, none of us would have been someone else instead, that's the core itself when it comes to the uniqueness of life.

You are so right Ulf. We are all the sum of our ancestry.

I think your stories are very interesting Harald and Annette. I would love to see the profiles if you don't mind sharing them. Ulf, lol 20 kids from one Grandfather? Now he was a busy Man He had an entire army to help him with that scenario but my God, his poor Wife/Wives.

I found something interesting while researching on Geni. I think I may have found a direct line (possible YDNA) from William The Conqueror Ancestor King Fornjot to modern day Dutton descendant.s Because Geni always shows the shortest path you can't see it when do this: http://www.geni.com/path/Peter-Dutton-12th-Lord-of-Dutton+is+relate...
but I found it when I traced my Mother's line to King Fornjot but it does not go all the way to her however it reveals in the interim 29 Male Descendant of King Fornjot to Peter Dutton 12 Lord Dutton. IF all those Men in the line had no non paternity issues along the way what this means that you could map the markers of Williams DNA via Fornjot through a modern day Dutton and I believe there are plenty of Duttons alive today who may be carrying those DNA markers. I'm no expert so input please. To see the names of the 29 Male descendantshttp://www.geni.com/path/Wanda+is+related+to+King-Fornjot-The-Ancie...
look for Peter Dutton and the line that goes from him to Fornjot.
What do you think? Do you think a Dutton walking around today is Fornjot's direct Descendant and there for the progenitor of William and his cousins?

The Dutton line only goes back to Odard. The unanimous opinion of scholars that the ancestry of Odard is fictitious.

King Forn_jot has at least 5 profiles here on Geni. His name in Icelandic is FORNLJÓTUR - means FORN (ancient)_LJÓTUR (ugly). The "L" is lacking from his profiles on Geni.

King "Ancient And Ugly" is according to Geni the closest my 36th grandfather - and probably quite often besides that since mostly all native Icelanders can trace their ancestry back to him..

It's a shame this one Alfred Dutton is not able to find his paperwork. It looks like he did quite a bit of work on the Dutton/Odard line. http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.medieval.general/602.3.2/mb.ashx and to have been able to have access to a 400 yr. old book via the curator is quite an accomplishment.

Sorry Justin, I did not realize this and it appears someone added Odard's line to the Geni tree going back to Fornjot.

I have been able to map a trail from my Mother to the Duttons then to Fornjot then from both of my Grandparents to the Duttons, from my Grandparents to William the Conqueror and back to Fornjot. What intrigued me was that I found a cousin in Mor Og Rosmdal via FTDNA and Geni who shares Fornjot as a Descendant and we found common Ancestor Polish Prince. FDNA says I have Finnish Ancestor's but I have zero matches to anyone on origins on FTDNA.

Through FTDNA, Geni the connections says my Mother and Father share an Ancestor in More Og so I traced the path and found the common Ancestor to be Glumra the descendant of Fornjot. The only way to get to Grumra from my Mother is through the Dutton's and Odard. The only way to get to Glumra through my Father is through his Son Ragnvald Earl of More. http://www.geni.com/path/Wanda+is+related+to+Ragnvald-Eysteinsson?f...
The only way to get to Glumra through my Mother is through the Duttons and Odard up to Ragnvald's Brother Malahulc.
So if Odard's Ancestor's are fiction then why are my Parent's related to each other through a common Ancestor in More Og?

The geni trail takes them both there. My Father's line will go through William back to Fornjot but they also have that common ancestor in More og.

I don't know coincidence?

More sinister than a coincidence :)

The answer is built in to the question. Small group of highly intermarried families. Very few surviving records. Only a handful of proven lines going back to them. If you're descended from any one of them, you're highly likely to be descended from all of them dozens of times over.

Every person with an English royal line or Scottish noble line is descended from Eystein Glumra, How could it be otherwise?

@anna, most (all)? of the Flateyarbook translations I have com across use the spelling "Fornjot".
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ice/is3/is302.htm is the link that still works after heimskringla.no moved its translation. Where is the version with an "l" in it?

The profile is here: Fornjot "the Ancient Giant", King of Kvenland - @wanda, if you find more copies, I'm happy to merge them - just send me a private message or link them in this conversation.

@wanda, Ragnvald's brother Malahuc is one of the *really' underdocumented profiles - I have not been able to find a source for him, he's not mentioned in the sagas I know. If you find a good source, please add it to his profile!

(Note: "Møre og" means "Møre and" - the modern administrative area is named "Møre og Romsdal", but "Møre" and "Romsdal" are two different areas.)

@Harald Tveit Alvestrand - here is a link to a documentary from the National Arcives over all listed and numbered sources in Manuscripts over "Forn_ljót" - not "F: http://landsbokasafn.is/uploads/handritaskrar/Efnisskra.pdf

So his name seems to be written her in Iceland with the "L" - only once the pronounciation "Forn_jotr" can be found - but "Forn_Ljótur" several times.

And Harald I agree with you on this "Malahuc" profile.

@anna, thanks! That list has "Fornjotr" once ("Fornjótr skyggnandist um þá réttu lausafjár- og fasteignamatning eftir síra Jón
Jónsson að Möðrufelli (þar með annotata eftir Stefán amtm. Þórarinsson).
463, 1594, 6524"), and "Fornljotur" twice. Given that this is an index, not sure what I can read out of that....

@Harald Tveit Alvestrand - I think that the language and pronunciation issues are to blame here and this "Forn_jotr" must have been younger than the "Fornjot" we are discussing because Iceland wasn't settled untill ca 800-870.

Either way - I wouldn't change the name "For_jotur" to "Forn_ljótur" unless a definite confirmation has emerged. Perhaps it would be a good idea to mention this difference in the notes with his profile?

Alfarin, King of Alfheim is King Fornjot "The Ancient Giant" of Kvenland's 15th great grandson, straight line father to father, then all lines goes over from Alfarin's daughter to the rest of us I think.

http://www.geni.com/path/King-Fornjot-The-Ancient-Giant-of-Kvenland...

Fornjot has a good line of Male Descendants Ulf.:) It looks like a lot of work was done to curate Malahulc's profile. It does say he is Ragnvald's Brother and Rollo's Uncle but is not mentioned in the Orkney Saga's. It also says his name is confused with another similar sounding name.

These Dutton;s it appears inherited Dutton lands and Titles but were not original Duttons. That would mean Dutton descendants walking around today would only carry the DNA of Odard etc. if they came from that specific line and not from the original Dutton line iff there is an original Dutton family line and IF Odard is the descendant of Fornjot.

Some sources say Odard is descendant of William but the reference material says he is a cousin and that is what Geni shows. They just have the same Ancestor.

Thank you Harald and Justin. I am just learning about them and if I had not found a cousin in More who was related to both my Parents I never would have found the path or thought to look for it. It is all new to me but I am learning a lot about History by reading about profiles on Geni and it is helping me to find the journey's of my Ancestor's.

What do you think the odds are of finding someone who is related to both of your Parents and to find them in a place where their Ancestors never left and always lived there? I thought that part was pretty amazing.

I'm trying to filter out the what if's to come to some conclusion. Justin you are correct because Philippa, Edward III's Wife is Glumra's 13th Granddaughter traveling through Rollo and that same area. She is in my tree again a 7th time now through my Mother which would again go back to Glumra via a longer route I think which would explain another connection to the Norwegian area.

It's just going to take me a while to have to accept that I might not find many unique connections other than this same family line over and over although it would be nice to find that Malahulc is indeed a a genuine ancestor and not another "oh your back in the same family again" thing. Is that the "Sinister" part Justin? lol

I have also found that both my parents are similarly related to Viking kings making them distant cousins with multiple connections in their ancestry.

Wanda, you asked "What do you think the odds are of finding someone who is related to both of your Parents and to find them in a place where their Ancestors never left and always lived there?"

The odds are just about 100% ;)

There are many academic ways of saying it, but I'm especially fond of the poetic image painted by historian Barbara Tuchman.

If you have English or Scottish ancestry, and you could have a bird's eye view of Britain and France just after the Black Death in the 1300s, you are descended from every lord in his castle, from every knight in his manor, and from every peasant plowing his field.

Assuming, of course, that their descendants didn't die out, that they have any descendants at all living today.

And, the same is true not just of you, but of your parents, grandparents, and great grandparents if they also had English or Scottish ancestry.

In addition to being descended from everyone in Britain and France, you'll also be descended from a huge number of the Scandinavians, Germans, etc. who were alive at the same time. And, the ones you're descended from will be the same ones that everyone else with English or Scottish ancestry is descended from.

Anette, as far as I remember, they were not executed on "Hjul og Stejle" (wheel and pole), where their body parts were distributed after the execution by bile or in any other inventive way used back then.

While the body parts where next distributed over the wheel, which was then horizontally mounted on top of a pole, the head topped another pole of it's own. Thus the poor man's left overs were 're-cycled' feeding the crows and other birds for at least 3 days.

He was first executed. Beheaded with an Axe. and then dismembered and put on wheel and Pole. He had killed someone, but I have not been able to find out who just how!

Good gawd Anette, that is a gruesome way for a person to die.

Dirk that is similar to what I am seeing now. I guess it is patterns I am looking at and like Justin is saying the English, Scottish, German, Scandinavian Ancestor's are all related to those same descendants of today. The only difference I am finding is the amount of DNA shared with those same people.

All the people alive today with English, Scottish, German or Scandinavian ancestry should match each other by DNA in Family Finder or some such program because of this fact.

It seems they only match if there are long stretches of YDNA by a male line or if the same group of people married each other's cousin's over and over like the royals or like small communities did. Even if that long line of male YDNA was hundreds of years ago matches will still show up. Maybe because of the length of time and recombination possibilities over a stretch of say a thousand years. By token if you are investigating a match of say one person in your tree to the same surname of a person in someone else's tree and it didn't fall under three rules;

1. A person belonging to a long line of lineal descent males. (because the line is a clean line often the Women they married even though just one generation will show up in matches.
2. A person belong to a cousin marriage group like small isolated communities or royals.
3. A recent ancestor (maybe within 100 yrs.) addition to your tree.

If you match does not fall under those three categories then chances are they may not show up related to you at all by DNA. The three rules above seem to push out or assimilate the other DNA.

Women are a whole other group. It's harder to trace them because so many Men didn't recognize them important enough to record their names.

The rules thing is just a hypothetical theory but I see the pattern over and over.

Wanda and Anette: A gruesome way to die? Not compared to some of the other fancy ways they'd have for you, unlucky person. You could actually be extended clemency from a more gruesome and extended execution method to head chopped off only :). Head off only, typically the right hand to go first, wasn't too bad to some of the other ingenious ideas they had back then. Struensee was lucky, and so was Brandt: Hand and next head off, 'hjul og stejle'. What's left of him went into the German church, Nørregade, CPH.

Yes Sten I gather he was dead and therefor would not care much what they did to his body. The whole thing was ment too scare other people fron doing the same. They did not believe in long prisonsentence at that time.
His belongings also have to pay for the execution! Way to save some money.
This guy we have no ideer where he wa buried, but he left an imprint on historie, because his own storie was preserved in the library of KAren Brahe who gathered cultural stuff from Denmark. He wrote a son about his guilt..

It sounds interesting with the different groups Wanda. And the royals sure was realted to each other in different generations. So finding a match should be posible!.

"And the royals sure was realted to each other in different generations", yes, they all were Anette, there might have been some very few exception, but they are indeed few, one of them is possible Sverre Sigurdsson, king of Norway, but then again, he claimed that he was an illegitimate child of Sigurd Munn... But in general, no one could become anything high without the right parents, and to climb on the ladder took often time. Plenty of wars created new nobility, but the most of them already owned land, thus being the sons of farmers, not poor people.

Today we would like to believe that anybody can become anything, but unfortunately, that's not all true. There will always be exception to this, people who from nowhere succeed to power or wealth, but they are just exceptions and once at their heights they do more often than not, indeed marries up. I am often quite stumbled over those people that really believes that anyone could make it in under the middle age era or before that time, it was closed societies, no matter where or almost when, and a part of this mentality lives on still today. But today we have new kings and lords, the entertainments stars, they are one of the exceptions, like lady Gaga, or Madonna and Sir Elton John, they all more or less often comes out from the blue. ; )