Living descendants of Edward IV?

Trouble is, with Welsh you can't be completely sure. There certainly was a Gaulish equivalent of "Theodoric", which was "Teutorix" and meant exactly the same thing (Ruler of the People).

All the Brythonic peoples looted Classical Antiquity and recent (to them) history quite heavily for names for their children. Sometimes the borrowings are obvious, sometimes less so. And when you have two names as similar as "Theodoric" and "Theodore", and the former name has fallen out of use for centuries - some people will go for what seems obvious on the face of it rather than digging any deeper.

I also wouldn't put it past old Owen to be using both meanings simultaneously: a "Gift of God" who would be "Ruler of the People".

Must admit I knew of Theodoric "The Great" for years, but Theodoric I was a very recent discovery - and there's a bit of a surprise lurking in the "Legacy" field.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodoric_I

Tudor and Teutonic: Ancient peoples of England arrived long before the WTC crowd in 1066. Tudor/Theodoric is recent history compared to Scandanavian arrivers along the Coast of England. Tenby is a Hot spot for I-1 haplogroup, and it makes sense to me that the Tudor's made landfall there, say about the year 1,000 BCE?

Tudor/"ruler of the People, and Gift of God...What could be more clear than the divine right of Kings joined to God? Margaret Beaufort stamped the idea of the Divine playing it's part in choosing her son....It's that old fashioned idea that the BLOOD LINE matters in the selection of Kings/Queens and such.

Therefore the leap to an actual Bloodline out of Scandanavia joined with the Remnant line of Jesus of Nazareth landing in Ireland must not be far behind ole Teutonic :TUDOR.

I do not know if Jesus had any sons, but it should be the line to Abraham that the Kings would want to have, I guess.?. If you check it out,
Oh no, I was wrong...
Queen Elizabeth II is Abraham's fifth cousin 66 times removed!
http://www.geni.com/path/Abraham+is+related+to+Queen-Elizabeth-II?f...

Maybe I should apply for the throne?
Abraham is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 101st great grandfather!
http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Abraham?from=...

I hope you'll have some kind of sense for humour

Yes, actually I do!!! And love that you get it.

The information only recently seen was the connection of Joseph of Aramathea, brother of Mary and Uncle to Jesus: took his daughter to Ireland at some point...and the IRISH have ever after claimed this blood in their Kings and Queens. I certainly don't make such a claim....but it must have been important enough idea that it still reverberates in present times.

God save the Queen and all her heirs. DCR

The earliest instance of the name Tudor (Tewdr, Tewdrig) I can find is a Romano-Welsh prince who supposedly lived in the 4th century, before the departure of the Romans and the coming of the Anglo-Saxons -- Tewdrig ap Tudwal, King of Garth Madrun (now Brycheiniog).

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/gene/anwnped.html

Probably just a coincidence that his birth falls during the reign of the Roman emperor Theodosius ;)

Wikipedia puts him in the 6th century, although pinning a specific date on him seems to be very difficult. Gildas never mentions him - but then, Gildas mentioned hardly anyone unless he wanted to make them a Horrible Example, and he may have been after Gildas' time.

Nennius doesn't mention him either, which is odder, as Nennius was an inveterate collector of odds and ends of history, legend, myth, poetry and what-have-you.

The Tewdrig story seems to have been first written down c. 1125, in the "Book of Llandaff" - at a time when the bishopric of Llandaff was trying to bolster its claims vs. St. David's and Hereford. One *might* suspect a bit of local puffery there....

Eventually Edward Williams, better known as "Iolo Morgannwg", got his hands on the story and it was Katy-bar-the-door. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iolo_Morganwg

Sidetracking again.
Severa had a granddaughter named Thewer, but,
I would believe that the wales pronounced Thewer as seuver,
then it's almost just like severa,
anyone expert in language here? Could Thewer become Tudor?

Thewer . verch Brydw is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's second cousin 45 times removed!
http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Thewer-verch-...

Wikipedia actually mentions him?? That surprises me. I'll have to go look. I only went as far as to look for the Brychan who was supposedly his grandson who inherited Garth Madrun from his mother and renamed it after himself. Him, they put in the 5th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brychan

I agree that there's not much reason to place any reliance on names, dates, or stories at this period, but Brychan supposed to have been a contemporary of King Arthur (5th century) & grandfather of St. Cadoc (5th/6th century), so hard to see how someone would try to put his grandfather in the 6th century!

Somehow that got to be a bit more complicated than I intended.

Short version: Tewdrig ap Tudwal is supposed to have been the 2nd great grandfather of St. Cadog, who was born about 497. So, if I were guessing I'd put Tewdrig's birth about 100 to 130 years earlier, say 367 to 397. Geni says 387, which seems a reasonable guess.

Seems there isn't a lot of consistency about Brychan either.

Did you think there would be? :)

Another one, also fun in the "Legacy" - Tudor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewdwr_Mawr

My bet would be that he's the reason so many Welsh men in later times were named Tewdr.

I would be surprised if he was really that early. The name "Theodoric" in any form is first attested in an inscription in Wiesbaden dating to the 3rd century AD, and it appears to be a bit of local syncretism attaching the title "ruler of the people" to the Greco-Roman god Apollo.

The first actual, documented *person* known to have borne that name was Theodoric I of the Visigoths (king 418-451 AD, probably born ~20-30 years earlier). Everybody knew about him in his own time and for some centuries after, because "he helped stop Attila".

After the end of Late Antiquity, during the 6th to 8th century there were also several kings of the Franks called Theodoric (or Theuderic). Finally, there was an early Anglo-Saxon king of Bernicia called Theodric (also spelled Deoric, Old English Þēodrīc). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodoric

* Theodoric I (died 451), king of the Visigoths
* Theodoric II (died 466), king of the Visigoths
* Theoderic the Great (454–526), ruler of the Ostrogoths, Italy, and the Visigoths
* Theodoric Strabo (died 481)
* Theuderic I (died ca. 534), Frankish king
* Theuderic II (587–613), Frankish king
* Theuderic III (died 691), king of the Franks
* Theuderic IV (died 737), king of the Franks
* Theodric of Bernicia, 6th century Anglo-Saxon king http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodric_of_Bernicia
* Saint Tewdrig (alternatively Tewdric or Theodoric) (c. 580 – c. 630), Welsh king of Gwent and Glywysing, who was martyred fighting the Saxons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewdrig
* Theodoric, Bishop of Ninden (died 880)
* Theodoric I, Bishop of Paderborn (died 916)

After c. 1100 AD, "Theodoric" seems to have fallen out of popularity in favor of various derivatives: Dietrich, Dieter, Diedrik, Dierik, Derek, Derrick, Dirk, Tietjens (Jens?), Thierri, Thierry, Terry (when not derived from Terence), etc.

There is actually only 1 living person in Sweden who bears that name,
Theoderik, is how we spell it. I really thought there would be more.

Here's one you may recognize:

http://www.geni.com/path/Rhys-ap-Tewdwr-King-of-Deheubarth+is+relat...

<privat> Rice-Wanker (Cookston) is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 19th cousin twice removed!
http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+private?from=...

The name Phillips surfaces at Family Tree DNA: Note also the names of Ap Rhys, ap Thomas, ap Jenkins also follows the same DNA trajectory. Coincidence? No, Blood line exactly as my Father explained, but which I failed to register and understand.

http://www.geni.com/path/Christopher-Phillips+is+related+to+Mildred...

You have some conflict here in your tree Dale, two mothers?
http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000029018687397

I saw it when I looked at our line.
Dale C. Rice is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 19th cousin thrice removed!

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Dale-C-Rice?f...

And here is one more, the ruler of Sweden.
Dale C. Rice is Birger Jarl Magnusson, Folkunga's 21st great grandson!

http://www.geni.com/path/Birger-Jarl-Magnusson+is+related+to+Dale-C...

His mother once said that as long as she kept her head high, her son would be successful, when she passed away, Birger had her buried standing.

Hope you understand Ulf: Im not going to touch anything in the tree at this point. it's a guarded thing, and I've been roundly smacked down for being carless. Since the Phillips line is correct and was mentioned by my father I'de be inclined to go with the Christopher Phillips line above. Also, my mother's line was from Tarkio Mo. and she was sent for after Chalfant's visited my family in Neleigh, Neb. about 1927-28. She was 18 and Dad was 42 never been previously married.

Yes, think about Christopher Phillips. That will get you to Dedham Mass faster than any of the other lines you've looked at.

Eight steps from John Rice and only two generations deep.

http://www.geni.com/path/Christopher-Phillips+is+related+to+John-Ri...

This is one where no one can complain that everyone in America has the same kind of connection. It's close, very close.

Further, Christopher's first wife was a member of the Rice family at Barnstaple (Devon) -- married 1613. One of his daughters from that marriage was an early settler at Dedham, and one of his grandsons from his second marriage was also at Dedham.

Oooh, very promising! No Tudors, though, so I don't know if Dale will follow up. :-D

Phillips is a Picton Castle reject. Robert born to Anne, Daughter of Sir John Perrott is 8 years prior to the Heir's birth. I1 Haplogroup vs R1b. So we don't really know the maternity of Robert's Paternal line without accepting the idea that Perratt II did not die in School, and is the person named by my father.

That's something I have track down...Phillips is the key however.

Toldjaso. :-(

http://www.geni.com/path/Douglas-Dansey+is+related+to+Samuel-Rice?f...

Dudley to Rice Named by my DAd, blood cousin to my mother. Followed by Margaret Phillips whou would have been 31 in 1624.

http://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Margaret-Phillip...

What if Margaret Rice of N. Walsham of Norfolk/Dedham were Margaret Phillips?

Besides: Porter is downline of DeVellville....

Nope, he's not gonna follow it up, he's gonna try to twist and bash the facts into his private little box. :-(