Richard III of England - DNA Contribution...

Dear Ulf,

"Bastards" have not always suffered scorn and derision throughout Christian history; nor can I see why they should have done. William the Conqueror did not have too many problems in asserting his right to inherit the Dukedom of Normandy, or attracting enough people to conquer England; or for illegitimate children of English Kings in the sevententh century (usually Dukes) to find eager matches. In Wales the legal rights of illegitimate children were almost the same as of legitimate ones. And in England, from the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries, it was quite normal for fathers to acknowledge and make provision for their illegitimate children in their wills.

I think I agree with you that except in some places at some times the illegitimacy rate in most traceable pedigrees is probably so low as to not make genealogy worthless - even in terms of genes. But the possibilty has always to be there.

The chances of illegitimacy vary radically between class and class, time and time, and place and place. And they are very different. Anne Boleyn, for example, lived in different apartments from Henry VIII; people in his court had reason to vist her saying they were bringing massages from him, therefore allegations against her may (or may not) be true. For the lower classes at the same time, the women had to go out to work, and equally had a possibility of a fling. But for quite high gentry the possibilities were very limited. The houses were crowded; they are small by todays's standards, even when they sound quite grand. There were lots of servants around.Etc etc

Mark

I too wish I could match my DNA with Richard III or the Plantagenets but my lineage is not direct matrilineal. HOWEVER, am I not reading the tendency toward spinal issues (poss. AS/ Ankylosing Spondylitis) in descendants? I was shocked- my daughter tested positive for AS initially & has spinal issues, but she only has the blood factor for it, not actually having diagnosable AS. Her last xray showed her spine had rotated/twisted. Is there a tendency to a positive HLA-B27 in descendents?

Attention Curators; I have a newly found cousin who has a wonderful composition with detailed notes on the the Holland born Vanderzee, Storm, Vanderbilt family ancestors with names, dob and path of migration and settlement. It was handwritten by an ancestor of his. Where would be the best place to post it so others can study it and possibly find their ancestral connections?

Hi Wanda!

Sounds very interesting! (Can't wait to see, myself!)

One could start a project (possible suggested name for project: "Venderzee, Storm, Vanderbild Family Ancestors, Migrations & Settlement") and include those profiles mentioned (actions button > add profiles to project), as well as upload Jpg's of the document(s) and tag those profiles mentioned within.
As well as, making sure to "cite" the document about what information is given on each individual found within the document, about those persons (the added and tagged profiles) i.e. First name, Birth name, birth place, birth date, death date/place, occupation, gender, etc..
If you need any assistance with the navigation (tagging, citing etc.), just hit me with a private message.

It would also, be an option to copy and paste (or transcribe) the information from the hand written document, into a new "source" Doc on a specific profile and then tag the project, within the source, as well.

Hope I could help out, at all.

xoxoxoTheresa Renée

Hi Theresa Renee, thanks so much for your advice. I am waiting for the person in question to decide how they want to proceed. They have a 6000 person gedcom but do not want to have to tediously add each person individually. 6000 people would take one person years to add. Yes, it will be very nice to see all the additions. Some may complete trees or provide missing information.

Hi Wanda,

Ok, there is a way to create a non- program- Format (Non Gedcom) PDF Version of the Information within a/the gedcom.
It's a tad more difficult to read, but most of the information remains. We could also, link a source through an external web space. (If she uploads the GEDCOM to i.e. A yahoo group, an own homepage and/or even a "box" . com folder set to public- share... And then, add the link thereto, again, under "description" in the source edit feature. This would allow for anyone who can access the profile and/or source tabs, to go there themselves, to transcribe what they need individually.
As mentioned, if I can assist in any way (including: transforming/converting, tagging and citing) feel free to accept my collaboration request and forward my profile to your cousin, too, so we may collaborate then, I am "able" to do this, for your perspective profiles, as well. (I am also, connected through Vanderbilt) ;-)

xoxoxoTheresa Renée

That's a great Idea Theresa. Thanks so much for your offer to collaborate and to help add his tree. I will keep you posted.

This might seem a roundabout way of getting but it's what I'm doing -- I have a gedcom with 108,000 people. A lot of it is already on Geni but not all of it. That makes it tricky to think of an organized way to get it on Geni.

So, I put it on MyHeritage. It's large enough that I have to pay a bit to have it there, but now that it's there it comes up in Geni Smart Matches, so I can just copy across what I want to have here.

"A painstaking hunt led to Joy Ibsen, a retired Canadian journalist. ‘When we were growing up, she created this huge family tree going all the way back up the male side of her family. It included the founder of the South American Missionary Society,’ Canada-born Michael recalls with a smile at his Holloway workshop."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3004997/A-burial-fit-villai...

Michael Ibsen is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 24th cousin!

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Michael-Ibsen...

Michael Ibsen

As Justin hints, 6,000 people isn't all that much, especially since if the Gedcom goes back all that far a lot of it will be already on Geni. The difficulty is in organisng the way to make sure that the people you have on the Gedcom are all matched on Geni.

I'd guess that entering by hand is about four years work maximum (if you spend a couple of hours each evening). That sounds a lot, but it is a lot less than it would have taken to create the Gedcom in the first place. The benefit is that you then hook up with the work that other people have done. The disbenefit is that you hook up with their mistakes, but then you do that in genealogy (and most other fields) anyway.

Mark

Justin, that must be why he was wanting to load his Gedcom into My Heritage. It's nice they have that capability. Mark you are right :)
Ulf, did you say you grew up with the Ibsens?

Wanda, it's a quote from the article in the links that are below the "... ". : )

A new research on Girard Atheist. athey/athon/athy.

https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=htt...

A family from Galway Ireland that have a traceable ancestry, and a very rare DNA
line., If you look at the FTDNA tree of G2a2b2b1*.
G2a2b2b1* aka G-F1193* (equivalents of F1193/PF3362: F1705,PF3430,F2410,PF3403).

The fast moving markers of dys 385, had me looking at the Royal French line as
Louis XVI, and Henri V, both had a fast moving markers on DYS 385, same as
FTDNA G2a2b2b1*.
Then look at Richard the thirds DNA, and then compare the three lines with G2a2b2b1*,
My thoughts are there is a common ancestor of all three of these family lines.
Fulk (Latin: Fulco, French: Foulque or Foulques; c. 1089/92 – 13 November 1143).
Simon I de Montfort (c. 1025–1087) was a French nobleman.
Was Girard Atheist a say second cousin to Richard I (8 September 1157 – 6 April 1199)
and John (24 December 1166 – 19 October 1216), also known as John Lackland.

Here you can read that John de Athy in the reign of Edward II, 1318,1319 was Captain and Admiral of the Kings fleet against the Irish and the Scots.

John de Athy (Bef 1280).Galway Ireland.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=MAPlXhcv_5UC&pg=PT237&...

Unfortunately the "Louis XVI" and "Henri IV" researches have not been confirmed by more modern research. It is now thought that mistakes (possibly in identification, possibly in lab work) were made and the samples were not valid.

Tests on two descendants of Louis XIV and one of his brother Philippe d'Orleans proved conclusively that the modern Bourbon family belongs to an entirely different haplogroup than the alleged "Louis XVI/Henti IV" results. They tested out as R1b1b2a1a1b* (R-Z381*) - not G at all.

There is rather less certainty about the previous Capet/Valois dynasties, given that Henri IV was a mere 9th paternal cousin to the last of the Valois.

I did some checking up on the "head of Henri IV", and discovered that the chain of possession has gaps which mean that its authenticity cannot be verified.

I repeat,
Was Girard Atheist a say second cousin to Richard I (8 September 1157 – 6 April 1199)
and John (24 December 1166 – 19 October 1216), also known as John Lackland.

https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&a......

Richard the third / Athy/athon /Mutation rate
Dys393(14) / Dys393 (14) / 0.00076
Dys390(22) / Dys390 (22) / 0.002455
Dys19 (15) / Dys19 (16) / 0.00151
Dys385 (13,14) / Dys385 (11,13) /0.00226
Dys439(12) / Dys439 (12)
Dys389i(13) / Dys389i (14)
Dys389ii(30) / Dys389ii (31)
Dys458(18) / Dys458 (16) / 0.00814
Dys437(16) / Dys437 (16) / 0.000830
Dys448(22) / Dys448(21) / 0.001243
YGATA4(11) / YGATA4 (10) / 0.002365
Dys456(15) / Dys456 (15) / 0.00735
Dys576(15) / Dys576 (20) / 0.01022
Dys570(16) / Dys570(17) / 0.00790
Dys438(10) / Dys438 (10) / 0.00055
Dys481(21) / Dys481 (21) / 0.004375
Dys635(21) / Dys635 (21) / 0.003392

Nope. To be a second cousin the match would have to be exact or almost so (one step difference at most). There are 16 steps of difference - not even remotely close. Possibly a distant common ancestor in the Bronze Age - or further back.

For the record, I ran a comparison of both R3 and Athey to Plummer of Anne Arundel. Plummer is about 8 steps difference from R3 and 16 from Athey, meaning none of them are particularly closely related, but the Plummers might have a common male ancestor with R3 circa Charlemagne or earlier.

(Distaff relationships don't show up in Y-DNA, for obvious reasons.)

Richard III of England is my fourth cousin 17 times removed.

Well. . . Richard III of England is also my second cousin 17 times removed . . . so what ?

Richard III, 1st Cousin 17 x removed. The more exciting part was figuring out that you can locate a family surname on centimorgans of Chromosomes. The closest I can come to Richard III via DNA) is through the Neville's. Using a method called chromosome mapping. It's not hard to do and anyone with some time and patience can learn how to do it and find connections to ancient ancestors.

The Neville Family appears to be hanging on chromosome #12. The precise end location must end at 21368250. The start location can vary, according to how close a distance to the common ancestor you and your match are. The closer you are, the longer the centimorgan, but the end location is the determining factor. So far I have been able to map: Bruce or Brus, de Warrenne and Blount. It takes time, but if anyone is interested in learning how to do it or collaborate just message me. Thanks.

Richard III of England is my first cousin 14Xs removed

Wanda - I'm sending you a PM. Thanks!

I am Richard the III's 4th cousin 20 times removed. this is my path
You
→ marlene Allen
your mother → Martella Esposito
her mother → Carmela Ferrara ( Farara)
her mother → Michele Ferrara
her father → Maria Giovanna Francesca Ferrara
his mother → Camillo Ferrara
her father → Nicola Ferrara
his father → Rocco "Paolo" Vincenzo Ferrara
his father → Francesco "Paolo" Ferrara
his father → Lucrezia Giannelli
his mother → Lucia SPINELLI
her mother → SPINELLI
her father → Troiano II Spinelli, V. principe di Scalea
his father → Ettore Spinelli, IV. principe di Scalea
his father → Giovanni Battista Spinelli, II. principe della Scalea
his father → Caterina Orsini
his mother → Giustiniana Orsini
her mother → Giovanni Antonio Orsini, conte di Nerola
her father → Maria Todeschini Piccolomini
his mother → Maria d'Aragona
her mother → Ferdinando I., 'Don Ferrante' di Napoli
her father → Alfonso V el Magnánimo, rey de Aragón
his father → Leonor la Ricahembra, condesa de Alburquerque
his mother → Sancho Alfonso of Castile
her father → Alfonso XI the Just, King of Castile and León
his father → Pedro I el Cruel, rey de Castilla y León
his son → Isabella of Castile, Duchess consort of York
his daughter → Richard of Conisburgh, 3rd Earl of Cambridge
her son → Richard of York, 3rd Duke of York
his son → Richard III, King of England
I have always felt I lived in the wrong time and now I find I am related to many royals in medieval Europe, I have always felt i belonged there.

I am trying to trace my Neville tree so always looking for some interesting ones This one goes way back the furthest .

https://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-387963802/breuil?rootIn...=