Leonard West - Broken Link

Another nasty catch is that son John West does not seem to have any connection with the West family of Banbury, Oxfordshire, who were explicitly yeomen prior to the 17th century and cannot be traced further back than the brothers James (d. 1621) and John (d. end 1642 or 1st few days of 1643).

West of Banbury has no Somerset connection either.

(Visitation of England and Wales, Volume 6, Part 1
edited by Joseph Jackson Howard, Frederick Arthur Crisp - pp. 104-108)

I found by My Heritage matches that Nicholas' parents could be John West John West of Banbury and Mary West (Throckmorton) Mary West

http://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000028709028622?return=duplic...

What do you think?

angus, that is what i have but the tree has skipped a generation. i started to go into it but too many confusing identical names no dates & no concrete resource. stopped till i can find a reliable source. a curator will have to fix missed generation. i have to squirrel around with it and it does not always work.

Need to watch the timeline - it's already dicey as it is currently represented (John West b. c. 1555, Mary Throckmorton b. c. 1527-41?????).

1. Are we sure that's the right John West? (See notes on the Banbury line as yeomen in the 16th century, under Joane West.)

2. Are we sure that's the right Mary Throckmorton?

3. How do you get from Oxfordshire to Somerset, in the late 16th century, when people generally needed a VERY good reason (e.g. marriage, inheritance, or gotta-get-out-of town) to go that far? (Coughton Court is in Warwickshire, which is not any better.)

4. Further travel problem: Leonard West married into the Yorkshire gentry and acquired his preferred residence via the Gascoigne family (he had to argue it out of Chancery, at that). That's getting pretty far Oop North and well away from Oxfordshire OR Warwickshire, and a LONG way away from Somerset....

This puts a different spin on dates of birth and death

http://www.ourfamilyhistories.org/getperson.php?personID=I117373&am...

Erica Howton

This is confusing document in Nicholas West, of Burton posted by you showing his parents as John West and Mary Throckmorton

You revised it here "Nicholas West, of Burton's parents were changed to Leonard West and Barbara West by Erica Isabel Howton, (c).
Apr 8, 2013 at 5:48 PM"

but it now shows his parents as Leonard West and Barbara West..do you think it was this merge that did that "Nicholas West was merged into Nicholas West, of Burton by Myrna Huthmacher, (C)."

Private User

I am going to move Nicholas back to where he belongs according to the Overview

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/WEST.htm#Nicholas%20WEST2

John WEST

Born: ABT 1535, Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Died: Drayton, Somersetshire, England

Father: Leonard WEST

Mother: Barbara GASCOINE

Married 1: Mary THROCKMORTON ABT 1550, Drayton, Somerset, England

Children:

1. Nicholas WEST

Married 2: Anne ?

Children:

2. Thomas WEST

3. Sarah WEST

And http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000013648714090

Tudorplace is not authoritative, and has at times been wrong.

Nicholas, wives, and at least some offspring have fairly solid documentation (church registries and etc.). But there is as yet NO primary documentation for Nicholas' parents, and NO visible connection between him and the de la Warr family - cadet branch or otherwise.

How about this http://books.google.ca/books?id=1iwUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA390&lpg=P...

Page 389

Visitations of Warwickshire yield no Mary Throckmorton who married any John West - not in any pedigree, not at any time.

It would help if Collins' information matched the pedigree given in that Visitation vol. 6 pt 1 - it doesn't, and I have to try to figure out where who got what information.

In this source: Visitation of England and Wales, Volume 21
edited by Joseph Jackson Howard, Frederick Arthur Crisp

* James and John West are brothers, and James at least is specified as a "yeoman".
* John married Margaret (no last name), who survived him until 1655 (he died right at the very end of 1642 or very beginning of 1643 - last few days of December or first few days of January).
* John and Margaret had children (I think), but they aren't mentioned.
* James married Anne Wing and had Alice m. Nathaniel Wheatley, Aholiab m. Mary (no last name), Ann m. Nathaniel Hill, Rowland, born and died 1609, Rev. John West (1610-1638), and James West m. Bridget Bently.

The official Visitations of Oxfordshire publication includes no Wests at all.

Uh-oh, people - I found the real John West of Banbury, and he has NO CONNECTION TO THE DE LA WARR FAMILY AT ALL.

FAMILY GROUP RECORD OF
JOHN AND MARGARET WEST

John West was christened 22 December 1581 in Banbury, the son of Edwarde Weste. He married Margaret in about 1608. His occupation was glazier. He was a Tithingman for Banbury. He appears in the Peculiar Court Record of Banbury once: "John West, for profane swearing: 12th April 1630, appeared; submitted himself; dismissed with a monition: received 3s. 6d." He died and was buried 5 January 1642/3 in Banbury. John and Elizabeth had the following children:

1. John, christened 3 September 1609 in Banbury.

2. Samuell, christened 2 September 1610 in Banbury; buried 17 August 1641 in Banbury.

3. Sarzan, (female) christened 9 December 1611 in Banbury.

4. Sara, christened 10 October 1613 in Banbury.

5. John, christened 25 December 1616 in Banbury; married Mary Boreman 27 April 1636 in Banbury; buried 14 September 1666 in Banbury.

6. Elizabeth, christened 9 April1620 in Banbury.

7. Aholiab, (male) christened 29 December 1622 in Banbury; buried 13 June 1624 in Banbury.

8. Nathaniell, christened 14 February 1626 in Banbury; buried 31 March 1628 in Banbury.

9. Annah, christened 16 September 1633 in Banbury; buried 21 September 1637 in Banbury.

10. Dorothy, christened 4 October 1635 in Banbury.

SOURCES: Banbury parish register; Banbury Corporation Records, Tudor and Stuart; The Bawdy Court of Banbury.

FAMILY GROUP RECORD OF
EDWARDE WESTE

Edward West was born in about 1550 of Banbury. He died and was buried 25 December 1613 in Banbury. He had the following children:

1.James, born in about 1580 of Banbury, named in Visitation of England and Wales: "James West of Banbury, co. Oxford, yeoman. Will dated 26 April 1621, with codicil dated 16 July 1621, proved 24 November 1621 (P.C.C. 95 Dale)". James married Anne Wing: "married at Banbury 1 October 1599; executrix to her husband's will 24 November 1621; living 3 September 1636. She married 2ndly at Banbury 28 August 1627 William Goodwin". (Visitation of England and Wales)

2. John, christened 22 December 1581 in Banbury; married Margaret; according to Visitation of England and Wales: "mentioned in his brother's will 26 April 1621"; buried 5 January 1642/3 in Banbury, "buried at Banbury 5 January 1642/3, Will dated 1 January 1642/3, proved at Oxford 1 March 1642/3 (P.C.C)". John's wife, Margaret is also mentioned: "Margaret, executrix to her husband's will 1 March 1642/3, buried at Banbury 30 December 1655" (Visitation of England and Wales).

3. Joane, christened 5 December 1585 in Banbury.


SOURCES: Banbury parish register; Banbury Corporation Records, Tudor and Stuart; Visitation of England and Wales, Notes 1906.

Need a link & this document uploaded.

I accept the source; this looks compelling to me. I've been chasing Aholiab for a couple of years:):)

Well done.

Wow Maven you are amazing..

Persistence pays off. :-)

Now, unfortunately, we have a lot of reconfiguring to do.

As to John West son of Leonard, I think I'll start looking around Yorkshire and Oop North generally - if he was *born* Oop North, and he likely was with Leonard West marrying into the Yorkshire Gascoignes and getting his hands on a nice Yorkshire property, he's somewhat more likely to have married and stuck around Oop North.

Erica: there are two Aholiabs you may want to check out.

1. Aholiab son of James brother of John (1603-1659) m. Mary nn, 9 children including 2. another Aholiab (b. 1629) who was living "out of England" as of 20 Aug 1721;

3. Aholiab son of John son of John (1655-1700).

If you're looking for a New Englander, #2 may be your best bet. :-)

Did you add profiles for John West and family?

Oh, that was 1671, not 1721. Oops.

Started Edwarde West Edwarde West and descendants off Leonard - they'll have to be cut loose at some point.

John West is duplicated with his proper wife and family. I'm not sure what to do about his bogus doppelganger.

Speaking of the doppelganger, Yorkshire Fines has this information for 1594.—EASTER TERM, 36 ELIZABETH.

Richard Fenton, gent., and Jenetta his wife [vs] John West, gent., and Frances his wife [properties] Manor of Burghwallis and 60 messuages, 20 cottages, and 2 watermills with lands in Burghwallis, Skellowe, Carcrofte, Sutton, Campsall, Auston als. Ouston, Frickley, Elmesall, Upton, and Wrangbrooke, also the advowson of Burghwallis church. A warrant against William Gascoigne, esq., and his heirs.

Hmmmm.... now, is this John West the son, or the brother, of William West?

And who is "Frances"?

Link: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=49713

Certainly looks as though Leonard's heir(s) did hang around Oop North, as I thought they might.

So what are we going to do about John West John West NOT of Banbury? Son of Leonard West he well may be, but he was certainly not born in Banbury, Oxfordshire (more likely Burghwallis, Yorkshire) and was almost certainly *not* the father of any Nicholas West of Drayton, Somerset.

Private User we need some help and assent from you at this point ...

Many thanks.

As for the Banbury Wests, they worked their way up the social scale until they sent a couple of people to Parliament and married into the nobility. It took them a while, though.

Private User

What is the information in John West 'About' section? The dates in the reference FAMILY GROUP RECORD OF JOHN AND MARGARET WEST are off from the dates on his Profile?