Johanna van der Schyff (Oelofse), SM - Was Johanna the first child of Sara Leendertsz/ Jansz/ van Gijselen van de Caap and Andries Oelofse?

Ansu Boyd
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Sharon Doubell
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Sibilla Pretorius was the mother according to Johannes' baptism entry:

1714 15 d:o
Johannes
Harman Barentsz Schijf, en Sibilla Pretorius
Jan Pretorius, en Constantia van Batavia. on http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

Yep - thanks Jansi - Richard Ball sent me the following ...

eGGSA baptism database - Cape Town - Corney's transcript

1714 Jul 15
Johannes
Baptised: 15 Jul 1714
Father: Harman Barentsz SCHIJF
Mother: Sibilla PRETORIUS
Witnesses: Jan Pretorius Constantia van Batavia
Transcript:
15 d:o
Johannes
Harman Barentsz Schijf, en Sibilla Pretorius
Jan Pretorius, en Constantia van Batavia.
Source: Nederduits Gereformeerde Gemeente (NGK), Cape Town, Baptism register, 1713-1742, page 3. Repository: NG Kerkargief, Noordwal-Wes, Stellenbosch, G1 8/2. Note: This register transcript is also available in the Transcripts section of this web site. Transcribed by Corney Keller, from photographs of Cape Archives VC 605

Looking at the entries in SAG Vol. 11 p 169 I followed up on the baptisms of the children listed. The baptism of the first child refers to Johanna Oelofse as the mother- and interestingly also mentions Andries Oelofse as a witness

- From Cape Town Baptisms 1702,

10 Dec:
van Harmen Barentz en Johanna Oeloffse

onder getuygen van Andries Oelofse en 

Annetie Pieterz de Groot, gent:
-
Barent

http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

It would seem that there was a Johanna Oelofse and that she probably was associated with Oelofse. To be the mother of a child baptised in 1702 she was definitely born before 20.08.1690 when Leendert was baptised.

Subsequent children baptised 20-7-1704 (Maria), Barend 7-11-1706 and Johannes 1714 already mentioned were the children of Sibilla Pretorius

I also found the SAG entry and eGGSA , she is not mentioned in Sara's testament though. Do we assume she died ?

June will have to dig deaper. Only saw this now. One of my references GR says Andries married. Copy and paste---
Andries Oelofse
v. Christiania (Oslo), Noorweë. Aank. 1668.
x 14.4.1690 Sara van Gyselen, waarsk. d.v. Leendert Jansz van Gyselen, v. Den Haag en Maria Willemsz, v. Hamburg.
b1 Leendert » 20.8.1690, x Margaretha Beyers
But let me deep deaper. I may understand you all wrong here.

Then there is this on v d Schyff -
Harmen Barend van der Schyff
v. Rotterdam,
x Johanna Oelofse;
b1 Barend » 10.12.1702
xx 23.9.1703 Sibilla Pretorius, d.v. Dirk Pretorius.
b2 Maria » 20.7.1704 and further children this mother.
I do find a Johanna Oelofse as a daughter of Roelof Oelofse b8 but she was only born ca 1730.
The above Johanna Oelofse died between 1702 when her child was born and 1703 when her husband married his 2nd wife.
So I will say we can say she is a SM because she had one child with a PROG but I can't find her at all.
I will go with the eGGSA June have above.
J

Breaking news

There is reference to a Johanna Oeloffse, mother of a child with Harmen Barentz baptised in 1702.

A. Mansell Upton on page 38 (note 37) of God’s Slave & Afrikaner ‘Hearts of Darkness’ http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/remarkablewriting/UL28_Jonker.pdf lists the following children of Sara Leendertsz/ Jansz/ van Gijselen van de Caap (c. 1669-1713)

1 Johanna Oelofse marries (defacto) Harmen Barentsz [van der Schyff]
2 Leendert Oelofsz ...
3 Ture ...
4 Dorothea ...
5 Roelof ...
6 Margaretha ...
7 Cornelis ...
8 Anna (Antje) ...
9 Johannes ...
10 Sara Magdalena Meurs ...

B. Johanina Oelofse is mentioned as the first wife (Mansell notes defacto in his article mentioned above) of Harmen Barned van der Schyff in SAG Volume 11 p169

C. From Cape Town Baptisms 1702,
10 Dec:
van Harmen Barentz en Johanna Oeloffse

onder getuygen van Andries Oelofse en

Annetie Pieterz de Groot, gent:
-
Barent
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

Note: This child probably did not survive as another Barend was baptised on 7 Nov 1706 by Harmen Barentz en Sibilla
 Prætorius.

D. That there was a Johanna Oelofse and that she was associated with Oelofse is certain from the above baptism entry. To be the mother of a child baptised in 1702 she was definitely born before 20.08.1690 when Leendert was baptised.

For this reason I suggest that b1 in the table should be Johanna

Corney Keller found this baptism -

A possible baptism of a probable daughter, Johanna, daughter of Andries Oelofse appears in the Cape Town baptisms of 1685 and may hold a clue as to her origin:

Den 19 Aug
Joanna
Calo , de vader Andries houtsager in't bosch
Marritie van de Caep

This entry has a child Joanna, the mother is Calo and the father Andries, a woodcutter in the forest. ,
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

Calo is most likely a name from Madagascar. She had another child in 1680 and another in the 90’s

Note. There is evidence that Andries Oels(en was probably sentenced for a long term in about March 1668 after he arrived on the Huis te Velsen. He appears twice in the " Muster Rolls of officers and men at
the Cape 1656-1699" in the collection VC 39 volume 2.

VC 39 2, "Rolle van de Compagniens dienaaren aan de Cabo de Boa Esperance bescheijden adij den 14 Maart 1670," page 127

- Andries Oels; Christiaenstadt; Bandieten aen t fort

VC 39 2, "'a:o 1672," page 154
- Andries Oelsen; ; In de Hout baij

In the first case his place of origin is given. He is a convict at the fort.
In the second case no place of origin is given and he is at Houtbaai, possibly as convict labour for the woodcutters.

Does this suggest that Andreas was serving his sentence as a woodcutter from at least 1672 to 1685? Who knows. It’s suggestive but not proof.

This document has some clues about the uprising on the ship and the possible involvement of Andreas Oelofse in that incident - although he is not named. Lots of circumstantial evidence - it would be good to find more documents regarding his sentencing.

http://maritimeasia.ws/maritimelanka/topics/EuropeanShipsInAsia.pdf

I am inclined to add a partner for Andreas and link the Joanna Oelofse to his section of the tree. Still working on the document for GISA but it looks as if the new listing of children of Andries Oelofse, SV/PROG should be

b1 Johanna Oelofse/ Oeloffse * before 1690. In a relationship with Harmen Barend van der Schyff
B2 Leendert Oelofse ≈ Stellenbosch 20.8.1690
b3 Dorothea Oelofse ≈ Stellenbosch 19.10.1692 x Cornelis Campher/Kamfer 7.1.1709
b4 Roelof Oelofse * between c. 1692 and 1696
b5 Margaretha Oelofse ≈ Cape Town 16.9.1696
b6 Cornelis/Cornellijs Oelofse ≈ Paarl 28.6.1699
b7 Anna/Antje Oelofse ≈ Stellenbosch 13.5.1703
b8 Johannes Oelofse ≈ Stellenbosch 9.5.1706

If anyone wants a copy of the document I am working on please get in touch!

It fine June. I trust you have looked at all possibilities and it might be that she was illeg.
J

Private whether Harmen Barend van der Schyff married Joanna is debatable - Mansell Upton suggests defacto relationship.

Delia Robertson you might find this of interest!

Have nothing to add, but looking very interesting - thankyou for doing this spade work.

June you are a real miner, dig dig dig,! Thanks for this :)

June I am happy. As said yesterday, I know you will do the right thing and leave it to you. I will help where I can, but I know all research have loopholes, as all were done by humans with not to many of the modern day technicalities. Sjoe groot woord for an Afrikaner boerenooi.
June I also read that and found it very interesting.
Speak later miner lady. Paul my poor friend. now I can already see threads from our other dear friend holding her to that name. June the Miner lady.
My hands are freezing...............

I agree, I posted the suggestion yesterday that she might have been a daughter of Andries with another partner but then deleted it.

SAG and Mansell state that he bought a farm in 1685 - so arguably he was a free man then ?

I have moved Johanna to be child of Andries Oelofse. In the final throes of preparing the document for GISA and will post it soon - promise!!

I have asked someone to get the documents regarding Andries's sentence from the Cape Town Archives, but that will be some time.

He appears twice in the " Muster Rolls of officers and men at the Cape 1656-1699" in the collection VC 39 volume 2.

VC 39 2, "Rolle van de Compagniens dienaaren aan de Cabo de Boa Esperance bescheijden adij den 14 Maart 1670," page 127

- Andries Oels; Christiaenstadt; Bandieten aen t fort

VC 39 2, "'a:o 1672," page 154

- Andries Oelsen; ; In de Hout baij

In the first case his place of origin is given. He is a convict at the fort.

In the second case no place of origin is given and he is at Houtbaai, possibly as convict labour for the woodcutters.

He must have been a free man by April 1690

[Marriage] NGK G1 1/1, Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk, 1665-1695:

Eodem dito (14 April) [1690]
sijn nogh in den huijwelijcken staet aen Stellen-
bosch vereenigt, Andrijs Oelofze van Christiania,
borger aen Stellenbosch, met Sara van Gijselen,
jonge doghter van de Caep de Goede Hoop.

http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

1707 - Andries Oelofsz & Sara Leenders are listed as a couple in the Cape Muster Roll dated end of December 1707.
By 1709 Sara is a widow

Ultimo December 1709, page 173, de Wede Andries Oelofsz

We need to find the source of the statement that he bought a farm in 1685 - must be somewhere for SAG and Mansell to use that information - which is the year of the baptism of Johanna.

I found this on wikitree giving a death date.

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Oelofse-72

Ansu Boyd - September 23, 1703 was the date that Harmen Barend van der Schyff married Sibella Pretorius so the statement should read "Died Before September 23, 1703 in Cape of Good Hope"

New link to document - typo's fixed!
http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000026920609365#

I sent an email to the owner of the wiki tree .haven't heard back yet

So did I Ansu Boyd offering her the new information. There is nothing there new to us.

Excellent work, June, while I am gallavanting in Northern Rhodesia (Zambia) - your old home country. Visit the old cemeteries for which no photographs exist.
The skills required for reconstructing names based on the underlying letter pinholes in the sandstone appear to be very similar to your spade work above!
Enjoy!

But thanks you Daan. Just remember to look around the corner for a better view on the names. Your own way of putting it in that wonderful story about a name and a shoe.
Enjoy. ☺