Ada de Huntingdon - Curators :Ada was also married to Ralph Brereton please add

Where does the died before date of 30 June 1242 come from? It looks like it's Richardson again? Has anyone looked for soc.Gen.med update info?

I answered my own question and there is the explanation of Richardson's conclusions also.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/3o...

It's a long thread - please read carefully and highlight the relevant points.

I am thinking Richardson suggests the origin of the (accepted?) Brereton pedigree may have been a marriage of Ada de Hastings, daughter or grand daughter of Ada de Huntington, to Sir Ralph.

NB Jim Weber has Ada de Huntington's birth date as about 1205 rather than 1199 so I'm adjusting to that.

OK please weigh in on Richardson's conclusions:

From [http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.genealogy.medieval/... Ada of Huntingdon] (died c.1242), wife of Henry de Hastings, Knt. From: Douglas Richardson Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008

"In conclusion, it is clear that Ada of Huntingdon had but one husband,
Sir Henry de Hastings. She did not marry (2nd) Sir Ralph de Brereton
or William de Handsacre. The possibility exists that Sir Ralph de
Brereton may have been married to her daughter, Ada de Hastings, widow of Sir Hubert Hovel. It is also possible that Sir Ralph de Brereton's widow married William de Handsacre. However, if so, Sir Ralph de Brereton can not have been married to Ada de Hastings, as William de Handsacre's wife was named Alice or Ala. Further study is needed to resolve this points.

This is the girl who caused ALL the confusion

Ada de Hastings

When Henry Hastings died in 1250, he left 3 unmarried daughters: Maud (sometimes Margery); Hillaria (AKA Eleanor); and Ada.

They needed to wait for the King to authorize their marriages. Well, there's something about Hubert Huvel didn't wait or didn't get authorized, so he ... abducted her.

(I hope someone chases up the whole story ....)

Doug Richardson in 2008 says, it is possible this Ada, daughter of Ada [after extricating herself from abducturous marriages], married this Radulphus Brereton, and that accounts for the pedigrees of her mother marrying Sir Ralph.

Mystery solved? The tomb inscription is either

- Ada's with her lineage & missing a generation 
- The Heiress of Yardley's place of burial 
- a later memorial 
- more nefarious fabricated pedigrees that need to be spelled out for innocent me

:)

Hope this helped.

It occurs to me that we could be "assuming" the 2nd Ada was known as "de Hastings."

Was it possible she was known as Ada of Huntington? After all it was the more powerful family & her connection to royalty would have been celebrated?

And that could even more easily account for a later memorial stone &
Pedigree error (missing a generation).

We need a good written description in the overview & a curator note on this, as the "hard proof" is still lacking.

It is confusing with the tomb's information. Could it possibly mean that Ada was the grand-daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon?

Or did Ada's (wife of Henry de Hastings) brother, another David of Huntingdon have any children, possibly named Ada?

We could copy & paste out the Latin and try and find out if "filia" ever could have meant "grand daughter."

But I had another thought to throw out there.

Omerod's mention of the monumental inscription refused to commit to a first name for the pedigree.

He referred to Ada or ADAMA.

There is also the discrepancy - 3rd / 4th daughter of David of Huntington.

What if Ada, 3rd daughter, married Hastings, died 1342. (Or she was ADAMA)

What if ADAMA, 4th daughter, married, Brereton, died ??. (Or she was Ada ... Or known as Ada)

Chase the property.

Who got Yardley?

What property came into the Brereton family?

Go into Complete Peerage for David of Huntington? Is there room for another daughter?

I would "not" think it's another David (unless family was doing later wishful thinking)

Just to extract out

===========

From http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=monke...

Still yet, a modern pedigree of the family of Earls of Chester found in Banks, Dormant & Extinct Baronage of England 1 (1807): 210 states that

"An old MS. Visitation Book of Cheshire says, she [Ada] married, second, William Handsacre, and, third, Sir Ralph Brereton, of Brereton, knight."

Contemporary records, however, do not support either of these "extra" marriages for Ada de Huntingdon.

We've already seen that Ada of Huntingdon, wife of Sir Henry de
Hastings, predeceased her husband shortly before Trinity term 1242
(date of lawsuit). Thus, Ada of Huntingdon can not possibly have
married (2nd) either Sir Ralph de Brereton or William Handsacre.

To date, I've found very little information regarding Sir Ralph de
Brereton, although it seems likely an individual of this name existed
in this time period.

================

The exact Latin:

"Hic jacent Radulphus Brereton miles et domina Ada uxor sua, una filiarum Davidis comitis Huntingdonis."

=================

Was there another David, count Huntington?

I thought the Latin was explicit in naming David's lineage?

Private User this is the main discussion to try and understand the tree relationships better.

There is a chronology issue with Ada of Huntington. She died (proven) before 1242. Her husband (proven) de Hastings died (proven) in 1250. Ralph de Brereton, knight AKA Radolphus de Brereton, miles, could not have been the husband of this (proven) daughter of David, count of Huntington.

Therefore - who does the inscription refer to?

Are there other interpretations in Medieval Latin for

Una filarium

Has it ever been used to refer to a grand daughter ?

Does Ada mean anything else, other than a name?

He also had a illegitimate (or by a unknown first marriage) dau. also named Ada who married Malise of Strathearn, listed by Wiki, ThePeerage, Our, Royal, Titled, etc., fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands. I think she would of been older then Ada thought to have m2. Ralph Brereton.

Burkes - A genealogical history of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited, and extinct peerages of the British empire & ThePeerage.com & Our, Royal, Titled, etc.
Lists that David Earl of Huntingdon & Maud/Matilda had a son David, I don't think he was Earl of Huntingdon and died d. s. p.

I haven't seen anything in the references about who received the Yardley property.

Not that I've ever heard of.

The Latin is very easy. Was Latin the same in 1242? Wouldn't it have to have been an updated inscription ?

Carole - yes, we have the Ada "the elder" daughter properly on Geni.

The Yardley property passed to the Lusignan's via the Hastings - yet more proof of that unquestioned marriage.

Whatever properties came into the Breretons would be what to look for. Can any be traced back to the Huntington holdings?

Here are some other references for Ada of Huntingdon & Henry de Hastings

*4. DAVID ([1144]-Yardley, Northants 17 Jun 1219, bur Sawtrey Abbey). William of Newburgh names "Hunteduniensem comitem David fratrem regis Scottorum" when recording that he became the leader of a rebellion in England [in 1174][474]. He received Garioch in Aberdeenshire from his brother in 1174, possibly becoming Earl of Garrioch, although there is no evidence of this creation[475]. Earl of Huntingdon in 1185, on the resignation of his brother King William. "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" founded Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "comitis Henrici patris mei et comitisse Ade matris mee…regis Willelmi fratris mei et regine Ermegard et…Matilde comitisse sponse mee et…David filii mei", by undated charter (dated to before 1203 from the names of the subscribers)[476]. "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" donated "ecclesiam de Lundors…ecclesiam de Dunde…ecclesiam de Durnach" to Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "comitis Henrici patris mei et comitisse matris mee et Malcolmi regis fratris mei et…regis Willelmi fratris mei et Regine Armengard…et Matildis sponse mee et…David filii mei", by undated charter[477]. He was deprived of all his English honours in [1215/16], but restored 13 Mar 1218[478]. The Annals of Waverley record the death in 1219 of “comes David, frater Willelmi regis Scotiæ”[479]. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records the death "apud Jerdelay in Anglia…die…Sancti Botulphi" of "comes David" and his burial "apud abbatiam de Sautreia"[480]. [m firstly ---. No direct evidence has been of this supposed first marriage of David. However, the date of David’s marriage to Matilda of Chester is late for this to have been his first marriage. In addition, his foundation charter for Lindores abbey refers to the donation of his daughter Ada, who was already married at the time and therefore considerably older than David’s children by his marriage to Matilda. Secondary sources generally assume that Ada was illegitimate. However, it is possibly that she was the daughter of an otherwise unrecorded earlier marriage of David, especially as she was given his mother’s name.] m [secondly] (26 Aug 1190[481]) MATILDA of Chester, daughter of HUGH de Kevilloc Earl of Chester & his wife Bertrade de Montfort ([1171]-[6] Jan 1233). The Annales Londonienses record that "Ranulphus comes Cestriæ" had four sisters, of whom "primogenita…Matilda" married "comiti David"[482]. Benedict of Peterborough records the marriage in 1190 of "David frater Willelmi regis Scotiæ" and "sororem Ranulfi comitem Cestriæ"[483]. "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" founded Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "…Matilde comitisse sponse mee et…David filii mei", by undated charter (dated to before 1203 from the names of the subscribers)[484]. "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" donated "ecclesiam de Lundors…ecclesiam de Dunde…ecclesiam de Durnach" to Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "…Matildis sponse mee et…David filii mei", by undated charter[485]. The Testa de Nevill includes a writ of King John dated 1212 which records that "comes Cestrie" gave land "in Forthington et in Ulesbi" in Lincolnshire to "comiti Davidi in maritagium cum sorore ipsius comitis"[486]. The Annales Cestrienses record the death “circa Epiphaniam Domini” 1233 of “Matildis mater comitis Johannis”[487]. Mistresses (1) - (3): ---. The names of David's mistresses are not known. Earl David & his [first wife] had one child:
**a) ADA . The undated charter, dated to before 1203 from the names of the subscribers, under which "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" founded Lindores Abbey refers to land "in villa de Neutile" donated by "Ada filia mea, uxor Malisii filii comitis Fertheth"[488]. As noted above, secondary sources mostly show Ada as David’s illegitimate daughter. The fact that she was given his mother’s name may indicate that she was legitimate, born from a possible first marriage. "Malisius filius comitis Fertheth frater comitis Gilberti de Strathern" donated "Rathangothen" to Lindores Abbey, for the soul of "uxoris mee filie comitis David", by undated charter, witnessed by "Waltero Olifard, David de Lindeseia…David Olifard…"[489]. "Ada filia comitis David uxor Malisii filii comitis Fertheth" donated land "in villa de Balemagh" to Lindores Abbey by undated charter[490]. m MALISE, son of FERTETH [Ferquhard] Earl of Strathearn & his wife Ethen --- ([after 1150]-).
*Earl David & his [first/second] wife had one child:
**b) DAVID (-after [1200]). "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" founded Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "…Matilde comitisse sponse mee et…David filii mei", by undated charter (dated to before 1203 from the names of the subscribers)[491]. "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" donated "ecclesiam de Lundors…ecclesiam de Dunde…ecclesiam de Durnach" to Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "…Matildis sponse mee et…David filii mei", by undated charter[492].
*Earl David & his [second] wife had [eight] children:
**c) ROBERT (-young, bur Lindores Abbey, Fife). John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) names "Robertum…et Henricum necnon Johannem" as the three sons of "David, rex quondam Willelmus frater" and his wife "Matildem filiam Hugonis…comitis quondam de Cestria", adding that Robert died "immatura" and was buried "apud abbatiam de Lundoris"[493].
**d) MARGARET ([1194]-[after 6 Jan 1233]). The Chronicle of Melrose records the marriage in 1209 of "Alan FitzRoland" and "the daughter of earl David, the brother of the king of Scotland"[494]. The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam" as the four daughters of "comiti David", recording the marriage of "la primere fille Davi" and "Aleyn de Gavei"[495]. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records the marriage in 1208 "apud Dunde" of "Alanus magnus de Galweyia, filius Rotholandi" and "Margaretam filiam David comitis de Huntingtona"[496]. The primary source which confirms her appearance in Jan 1233 has not been identified. The date is inconsistent with Alan’s subsequent marital history, unless his marriage to Margaret was dissolved. m (Dundee 1209) as his [third] wife, ALAN Lord of Galloway, son of ROLAND Lord of Galloway & his wife Helen de Moreville (-[2] Feb 1234, bur Dundraynan). Constable of Scotland. .... etc.
**e) HENRY (-after 1215, bur Lindores Abbey, Fife). John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) names "Robertum…et Henricum necnon Johannem" as the three sons of "David, rex quondam Willelmus frater" and his wife "Matildem filiam Hugonis…comitis quondam de Cestria"[500]. His father offered 1,000 marks for Henry's marriage with “Maud de Cauz” in 1203, but the marriage did not take place[501]. The Pipe Roll 1205/06 records that "Earl David owes 1000 marks that Henry his son may have to wife Matilda de Calceto with her land. But he ought not to be summoned, for he has not got the wife for his son’s use"[502]. King John notified "G. fitz Piers" that “he has given the daughter and heiress of Ralf de Cornhulle with the land pertaining to her, to Henry son of Earl David. And requests him to let him have the lady and her land without delay”, dated 6 Jun 1205[503].
**f) ISABEL (1206-1251, bur Saltre Abbey, near Stilton, Gloucs). The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam" as the four daughters of "comiti David", recording the marriage of "la secounde fille Davi" and "sire Robert de Brus"[504]. She was granted the manors of Writtle and Hatfield, Essex, 16 Oct 1241 in return for her share of the inheritance of her brother John Earl of Chester. m ROBERT [IV] de Brus “the Noble” Lord of Annandale, son of WILLIAM de Brus & his wife Christina --- (-1245).
**- see below, Chapter 4. KINGS OF SCOTLAND, HOUSE of BRUCE.
**g) JOHN "the Scot" ([1207]-Darnhall, Cheshire [5/7] Jun 1237, bur Chester, Abbey of St Werburg[505]). The Annales Londonienses name "Johannem" as the son of "comiti David" & his wife[506]. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) names "Robertum…et Henricum necnon Johannem Scotum ab Anglis vocitatum" as the three sons of "David, rex quondam Willelmus frater" and his wife "Matildem filiam Hugonis…comitis quondam de Cestria", adding that John succeeded his father and also succeeded "Ranulpho…ad comitatum Cestriæ"[507]. He succeeded his father in 1219 as Earl of Huntingdon and Garioch. "Johannes de Scocia comes Huntedun" donated "terram…de Lundors" to Lindores Abbey by undated charter, subscribed by "Henrico de Striuelin fratre meo…"[508]. He was created Earl of Chester 21 Nov 1232, in succession to his maternal uncle: the Annales Cestrienses record the death “VII Kal Nov apud Walingford” of “Rannulphus comes Cestrie et Lincoln” and that “Johannes de Scocia” was made “comes Cestrie...XI Kal Dec...apud Northampton”[509]. The Annales Cestrienses record the death “apud Darnal VII Id Jun” 1237 of “Johannes de Scocia comes Cestrie et Huntendon” and his burial “apud Cestriam”[510]. Matthew Paris records that it was suspected that his wife "filia Leolini" poisoned John “the Scot”[511]. The Annales Cambriæ record the death in 1237 of "Johannes comes Cestriæ gener suus [dominæ Johannæ filiæ regis Angliæ et uxor Lewilini principis Walliæ]"[512]. The Annals of Tewkesbury record the death “V Id Jan” in 1237 of “Johannes de Scotia comes Cestriæ”[513]. m ([1222]) as her first wife, HELEN of Wales, daughter of LLYWELYN ap Iorwerth Fawr ("the Great") Prince of Wales & his second wife Joan [illegitimate daughter of John King of England] (-1253 before 24 Oct). The Annales Cestrienses record in 1222 that “Johannes filius comitis David” married “filiam Lewelini” in accordance with the agreement between him and “comitem Cestrie”[514]. The Annals of Dunstable record that “Johannes comes Cestriæ” died in 1237 and “eius uxor…filia Lewelini” married “Roberto [de Quinci]” against her father’s wishes[515]. She married secondly (1237 before 5 Dec) Robert de Quincy. A writ after the death of "Eleanor, sometime the wife of John Earl of Chester", dated "the eve of St Martin 38 Hen III", records the "partition of her lands between Si J. de Bayllol, Robert de Brus, and Henry de Hasting, the heirs of the said earl"[516].
**h) MATILDA [Maud] . The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam" as the four daughters of "comiti David"[517]. 1239.
**i) ADA (-after 1241). The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam" as the four daughters of "comiti David", recording the marriage of "la tierce fille Davi" and "sire Henri de Hastinges"[518]. m (before 7 Jun 1237) HENRY de Hastings, of Ashill in Norfolk, son of WILLIAM de Hastings & his first wife Margery Bigod of Norfolk (-before 9 Aug 1250).
*Earl David had [three] illegitimate children by Mistresses (1) - (3):
**j) HENRY of Stirling (-after 12 Feb 1236). "Walkelino filio Stephani, Willo Wacelin Henr et Henrico fil meis…" witnessed the undated charter under which "Comes David frater regis Scotorum" donated "elemosinam totum Kanum et Kuneueth" to St Andrew’s priory[519]. "…Henrico filio comitis…" subscribed the undated charter under which "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" founded Lindores Abbey[520]. It is unlikely that Henry was legitimate as, unlike his [half-brother] David, he is not named as a beneficiary of the foundation in the body of the charter. Henry is also named well down the list of subscribers to the document, indicating an inferior position relative to the other subscribers. "…Waltero Olifard, Henrico filio comitis David…" subscribed the undated charter under which "comes David frater regis Scottorum" donated "totam terram de Perthegus…et…terre in Pethannot" to Lindores Abbey[521]. "…duobus Henricis filiis comitis…" subscribed the undated charter under which "Comes David frater regis Scocie" donated "Culsamuel et…Munkegyn" to Lindores Abbey[522]. "Johannes de Scocia comes Huntedun" donated "terram…de Lundors" to Lindores Abbey by undated charter, subscribed by "Henrico de Striuelin fratre meo…"[523]. "Henricus de Brechyn filius comitis Dauid" donated revenue to Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "Juliane sponse mee et Willelmi filii mei", by undated charter, witnessed by "Domino Henrico de Striuelin fratre meo…Willelmo filio meo…"[524]. "…Henrico de Strivelin filio comitis David…" subscribed the charter dated 12 Feb 1236 under which Alexander II King of Scotland confirmed donations to Kinloss[525].
**k) HENRY of Brechin (-[1244/Aug 1245]). "Walkelino filio Stephani, Willo Wacelin Henr et Henrico fil meis…" witnessed the undated charter under which "Comes David frater regis Scotorum" donated "elemosinam totum Kanum et Kuneueth" to St Andrew’s priory[526]. "…duobus Henricis filiis comitis…" subscribed the undated charter under which "Comes David frater regis Scocie" donated "Culsamuel et…Munkegyn" to Lindores Abbey[527]. "Henricus de Brechyn filius comitis Dauid" donated revenue to Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "Juliane sponse mee et Willelmi filii mei", by undated charter, witnessed by "Domino Henrico de Striuelin fratre meo…Willelmo filio meo…"[528]. He swore to aid King Alexander II to keep the 1237 truce with England in 1244[529]. m JULIANA de Cornhill, daughter of RALPH de Cornhill & his wife ---. "Henricus de Brechyn filius comitis Dauid" donated revenue to Lindores Abbey, for the souls of "Juliane sponse mee et Willelmi filii mei", by undated charter, witnessed by "Domino Henrico de Striuelin fratre meo…Willelmo filio meo…"[530]. The primary source which confirms her parentage has not yet been identified. Henry & his wife had one child: .... etc.
**l) [MARJORY (-[after 1241]). "DD de Lyndes filius DD de Lyndes" donated revenue to Dunfermline abbey with "matri mee" by undated charter witnessed by "domina Margeria de Lyndeseya…"[538]. This document suggests that Marjory lived during the later years of the life of her son David, who died in 1241. "Willelmus de Lyndesay miles filius quondam dni David de Lyndeshay" donated revenue to Newbattle priory, for the souls of "dni David de Lydesay patris mei et Margarete de Lyndesay matris mee", by charter dated 1293[539]. The proofs relating to the claim to the Scottish throne in 1291 made by her great grandson "domini Roberti de Pinkeny" name "Margareta" as daughter of "Henr patre Regis Willi" but do not name her husband[540]. If the hypothesis about Marjory’s date of death is correct, this alleged parentage is impossible from a chronological point of view. Balfour Paul suggests that she may have the daughter of one of the sons of David Earl of Huntingdon who are named Henry[541]. However, this suggestion appears to place her birth somewhat late, considering that her son David was married when he died in 1241. She is shown here as the possible daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon, but that is only a suggestion. m DAVID de Lindsay, son of WILLIAM de Lindsay & his wife --- (-after 12 Nov 1246).]
*From: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTLAND.htm#Daviddied1219
*________________________________________

*HENRY de Hastings, of Ashil, Norfolk, son of WILLIAM de Hastings & his first wife Margery Bigod of Norfolk (-before 9 Aug 1250). King Henry III granted "custodia terre et heredis Willelmi de Hasting" to “...Isabelle que fuit uxor Osberti Giffard et Matildi sorori ipsius Osberti”, dated 1229[1672]. King Henry III granted rights relating to "priori et sacriste Sancti Edmundi" to “Henrico de Hasting senescallo domus sue” as previously held by “Willelmus pater suus”, dated 1229[1673].
*m (before 7 Jun 1237) ADA of Huntingdon, daughter of DAVID of Scotland Earl of Huntingdon & his wife Matilda [Matilda] of Chester (-after 1241). The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam" as the four daughters of "comiti David", recording the marriage of "la tierce fille Davi" and "sire Henri de Hastinges"[1674].
*Henry & his wife had [four] children:
**1. HENRY de Hastings (-before 5 Mar 1269). The Annales Londonienses name "Henri" as son of "la tierce fille Davi" and "sire Henri de Hastinges"[1675]. "Henricus de Hastinges" confirmed the donation of "villam meam de Flandres in Garviach" to Lindores Abbey, made by "comitis David avi mei", by undated charter[1676]. A writ dated "53 Hen III", after the death of "Henry de Hastinges", names "John his son aged 6 on the day of St John ante Portam Latinam 52 Hen III, is his heir"[1677]. m JOAN de Cauntelo, daughter of WILLIAM [IV] de Cauntelo of Calne, Wiltshire and Aston Cantlow, Warwickshire & his wife Eva de Briouse (-before Jun 1271). The Chronicle of Tintern Abbey, Monmouthshire names "Georgius" who died childless and "Johanna nupta Henrico de Hastings et Milisannt de Monte-alto…uxor Ivonis de la Zouch" as the children of "Willielmo de Cantilupo" and his wife[1678]. Henry & his wife had three children: .... etc.
**2. MARGERY de Hastings .
**3. HILARIA [Eleanor] de Hastings . m (1256 or after) as his second wife, WILLIAM de Harcourt, son of RICHARD de Harcourt & his wife Orabilis de Quincy (-1270).
**4. [MATILDA de Hastings (-London [1264/65], bur Sainte-Marie ---). The Liber Memorandorum Ecclesie de Bernewelle names "Matildis de Hastinges" as the first wife of "dominus Gilbertus Pecche", adding that she died in London and was buried "in ecclesia canonicorum beate Marie ultra aquam" as burial in England was not possible because of "perturbacionem que tunc erat" (suggesting her death in [1264/65][1689]. The source does not name her parents. The Complete Peerage suggests that she was one of the three (unnamed) unmarried daughters of Henry de Hastings who are mentioned as living on Henry’s death in 1250[1690]. m as his first wife, GILBERT Pecche, son of HAMO Pecche & his wife Eva --- (-25 May 1291).]
*From: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#...
*_______________________________________

*Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900, Volume 25
* Hastings, Henry (d.1268)
*HASTINGS, HENRY, first Baron Hastings by writ (d. 1268), baronial leader, was son of Henry Hastings (d. 1250, sixth baron by tenure, and Ada, third daughter of David, earl of Huntingdon, brother of William the Lion, by Maud, daughter and coheiress of Hugh, earl of Chester. His grandfather, William Hastings (d. 1226), took part with the barons against King John, and in 1216 his lands were forfeited; he was taken prisoner at Lincoln in 1217, and was one of William of Aumale's supporters at Biham in 1221. Henry Hastings the elder fought in Poitou in 1242 and was taken prisoner at Saintes, he served in Scotland in 1244 (Report on Dignity of a Peer, iii. 20). In 1250 he was one of the nobles who took the cross, but died in July of the same year. Matthew Paris calls him .... etc.
*From: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hastings,_Henry_(d.1268)_(DNB00)
*___________________________

So David's 4 daughters were

"Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam"

His elder daughter Ada is 1) too old 2) clearly married

There do not seem to have been any other daughters.

Ada is the 4th daughter, not 3rd.

I'm still thinking Doug Richardson's suggested possibility is the only option.

I agree with Doug Richardson, and think Ada was only married to Henry Hastings. It must of been some other Ada dau. of David Count/Earl of Hungtingdon that was married to Radulphus Brereton.

It seems everything should be taken with a grain of salt, possibly some information thought correct could be wrong, maybe the the elder Ada m2. Henry Hastings and the younger Ada could of had a later birth and married Ralph Brereton. From the tomb plaque we know that Ralph Brereton was married to a Ada dau. of David Count/Earl of Huntingdon, but it does not say she was married previously or afterward. So where really does the other marriages come from, supposition from the researchers or is there actual historical records that refer to which Ada married Brereton and her other husbands.

Maybe the best would be to have David with three dau. named Ada, one as the wife of Ralph Brereton but not connected to Henry Hastings, with a note that it was thought she was also married to Henry, also a note for Henry's wife Ada.

I'm not sure if it is typo's or the researchers that get confused but there always seems to be something that isn't correct, I'm referring about the 4th or 3rd dau., I recently have seen where the name or the Lord designation has been wrong, being different then in another section of the same book, I've seen several other errors.

I'd like to look into the Brereton family side - 3 daughters named Ada seems much, and the generations align better if we think it was a grand daughter, not daughter.

I think the memorial inscription was erected well after the death of this couple & it would have been very easy to have lost a generation of daughters, particularly if grand daughter Ada was known in her time as "of Huntington" rather than "of Hastings" as we assume.

Since the Yardley properties were

- inherited by 4th daughter Ada
- passed to the Hastings on her death
- passed from the Lusignan's from the Hastings

I don't see how she could have been the Brereton wife.

I don't know how much clearer it has to be; just because you can't put your other lines together, here is her tomb, the Latin is clear. Who her father is, who her husband is. Erica, you "assuming " it's a memorial, when it's cleary a tomb which was formerly inside the church until the Reformation. You are assuming what she was called during her lifetime. I would ask then you prove it is NOT her tomb. Show me where she is buried. Show me that she was never Ralph Brereton's wife and explain all the inconsistencies. 3 sets of genealogies agree about her.

Just wondering, when you added this one the other day Pamela, it ended up showing as an extra person to my tree (family) Unknown Profile

Pamela please don't argue with me. I don't have to prove anything.

I have researched the current thinking by medievalists for you and presented their conclusions.

So let's address Doug Richardson's points, and start with

How can this be the Ada of Huntington, who died in 1242, who married Hastings, who died in 1250?

His suggestion is that perhaps it's her daughter, as it can't possibly be her.

The genealogists, pedigrees, and images cited (and more) were all reviewed by Richardson, and noted in the email to his peers for review. At least as far as I could see, his conclusions were accepted, and Jim Weber for one updated his data base accordingly.

I know. Because a few years ago Jim Weber "had her married to both" as per the pedigree cited.

So why did he change?

Another of Doug Richardson's peers is Hal Bradley. He is, I'm sure, familiar with the tomb, and cites Omerod on his page for Ralph de Brereton

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hwbradley/aqwg952...

He has her wife as NN.

Also, comparing the ages of the Brereton children:

  M i Sir William de BRERETON Knight was born 1231.
  M ii Gilbert de BRERETON was born 1233 and died 1298.
  F iii Sybil de BRERETON was born 1236.

And the Hastings children from his page here

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hwbradley/aqwg678...

  F i Hilary de HASTINGS was born 1232.
  M ii Sir Henry de HASTINGS Lord Hastings was born 1234 and died Mar 1269.
  F iii Ada de HASTINGS 1, 2 was born 1237 in Ashill, Norfolk, England.

We have sets of children being born in the 1230s to different men by the same woman?

No, not possible.

The only other thing I can think of is to review the marriages of David of Huntington's 4 daughters again

The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam, Isabellam, Matildam, et Aldam" as the four daughters of "comiti David", recording the marriage of "la tierce fille Davi" and "sire Henri de Hastinges"[1674].

*'''Breretons of Cheshire, 1100 to 1904 A. D (1904)
*https://archive.org/details/breretonsofchesh00brer
*https://archive.org/stream/breretonsofchesh00brer#page/14/mode/1up
*Pg.14
** LADY ADA.
* Lady Ada, the alleged wife of Sir Ranulphus, or Radulphus de Brerton, of Brereton, was the third married daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, third son of Henry, Prince of Scotland, only son of King David I., of Scotland. Lady Ada's mother was Maud, daughter of Hugh de Keveilioc, Count Palatine, and fifth Earl Royal of Chester, and sister and heiress of Randulph de Blundevill, sixth Earl Royal of Chester, who was fifth in descent from
*https://archive.org/stream/breretonsofchesh00brer#page/15/mode/1up
*Pg.15
*Margaret, sister to the Conqueror, and mother of Hugh Lupus, the first Earl Royal of Chester, or Count Palatine, of Cheshire. Her only brother was John the Scot, seventh and last Earl Royal of Chester, who died without issue, said to have been murdered by his wife. Her paternal uncles were Malcolm IV., and William II. (the lion), kings of Scotland. Her eldest sister was Izabel, mother of Robert Bruce, of Annandale, the great grandfather of Robert Bruce, King of Scotland. Her second sister, Margaret, was mother of John Baliol, the founder of Baliol College, Oxford, and the grandmother of John de Baliol, King of Scotland. Her great grandmother Maud, wife of David I., was the daughter and heiress of Waltheof, Earl of Huntingdon by his wife Judith, niece of the Conqueror ; and her great great grandfather was Malcolm III. (Caenmore), who married Margaret, daughter of the Saxon King Edmund Ironsides. Thus she inherited the Norman, Saxon and Celtic royal blood mixture, and hence descent from Egbert the first Saxon King of all England, who died A. D. 837, and from Kenneth, the first Celtic King of Scotland, who died A. D. 850. Her first husband was Sir Henry de Hastings, afterwards Baron Hastings, by whom she had issue, one of which, John Hastings, was among the claimants for the crown of Scotland on the death of Margaret, the maid of Norway, in 1291. She is said, according to the pedigree of the Brereton family as given by Ormerod (the greatest authority on the Cheshire families of re-nown), to have afterwards married Sir Ranulphus, or Radulphus Brereton, of Brereton, who, according to family tradition, was one of the knights of the Crusades with King Richard I., and was the Sir Kenneth of the Leopard, in Sir Walter Scott's "Talisman." Lady Ada's father died A. D. 1219, and as her first husband, the first Baron Hastings, died in 1268, she must have been nearly fifty years old when she married Sir Radulphus Brereton, who, according to the Brereton pedigree, was living in 1275, time of Edward I. The canopied tomb, above mentioned as disputed, of Sir Ranulphus and his wife Ada, is still existing in the church yard of Astbury. I have seen it. This was the burial spot of the family at that period of the thirteenth century. .... etc.
*https://archive.org/stream/breretonsofchesh00brer#page/70/mode/1up
*Pg.70
* Sir William de Brerton I., of Brereton, 1175. Name of wife not found.
* Sir William de Brerton II., second Lord of Brereton. Name of wife not found.
* Sir Ralph de Brerton I., third Lord of Brereton. Name of wife not found.
* Sir William de Brerton III., fourth Lord of Brereton, died in 1216. Married Margery, daughter of Sir Randle de Thornton, of Thornton, Cheshire.
* Sir Ranulphus de Brerton II., fifth Lord of Brereton, living in 1272. Married Princess Ada, fourth daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, widow of Sir Henry de Hastings. They had two sons, William, the heir, and Gilbert, who was Rector of Astbury ; he had one son, Henry, and one daughter, Sibilla, wife of William, son of Sir Adam de Booths, who had lands in Withershaw, which in the sixteenth century were owned by Robert Tatton, who married Anne Brereton, of the Ashley branch. Their canopied tomb is to be seen in Astbury church yard.
* Sir William de Brerton IV., sixth Lord of Brereton, married a daughter of Sir Richard de Sonbach, of Sandbach.
* Sir William de Brerton V., seventh Lord of Brereton, 1342, married Rose, daughter of Sir Ralph de Vernon, Baron of Shipbrook, Cheshire.
* William de Brerton, Esq., eldest son, died during his father's life. Married Margery, daughter of Sir Richard de Bosley.
* Sir William de Brerton VI., eighth Lord of Brereton, 1300, heir to his grandfather. His first wife was Ellen, daughter of Philip de Egerton, of Egerton, sister and heiress of David de Egerton, joint baron with the Cholmondeleys, of Malpas. Through her he became joint Baron of Malpas. His second wife was Margaret, daughter of Henry Done, of Utkington, widow of Sir John Davenport ; by her he had Randle, the founder of the .... etc.
*_______________________________________

Brereton Family History, with Latin inserts to look at: de Vennables,
https://archive.org/details/breretonfamilyhi00brerrich

Brereton of Cheshire PDF
http://www.brereton.org/Cheshire%20January%202013.pdf

Breretons of Ireland
http://www.brereton.org/Brereton%20Families%20of%20Ireland-jan2012%...

Google discussion on this subject.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/-6_9...

Pamela,

It's not clear, how do you explain that this Ada was married to Ralph Brereton, when she died before her husband Henry Hastings, (listed in reference - In 1245 he presented to the church of Wistow, Leicestershire. In the Pipe Rolls of 1247, his wife Ada, being dead, it was noted that Henry held the manors of Condover and Worfield, Shropshire, "by reason of the heirs of Ada his wife whom he has by the said Ada." ). Henry Hastings died shortly before 9 Aug. 1250.

Even the book 'Breretons of Cheshire' states it as her being the alleged wife, like most of the references.

"Lady Ada's father died A. D. 1219, and as her first husband, the first Baron Hastings, died in 1268, she must have been nearly fifty years old when she married Sir Radulphus Brereton, who, according to the Brereton pedigree, was living in 1275, time of Edward I. The canopied tomb, above mentioned as disputed, of Sir Ranulphus and his wife Ada, is still existing in the church yard of Astbury. I have seen it ..."

- So we know that Sir Ralph was living in 1275
- since Ada de Huntington died in 1242, how can she be the person in the tomb?

What was the form of marriage back then, did they separate or divorce, or were women "owned" till husbands death, I was reading a will yesterday in these times, where the husband asked his wife to take the "vow of widowhood" and concentrate on caring for their children after his execution.