Oneka ó Faquilene - Link between Spanish nobility and Arab noble families?

Started by Harald Tveit Alvestrand on Wednesday, May 28, 2014
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5/28/2014 at 12:49 PM

In the great "let's test the connecion" project, the time has come to test a connection between Spanish Christian Spain and the Arab families who claim descent from the Prophet and from Ishmael, Abraham's son.

Any link deserves to have its documentation verified. From the "about me", I couldn't identify a source for this one.
Can someone help me?

5/28/2014 at 1:49 PM

I take no position, but I'd welcome any input, pro or con, on this argument.

5/28/2014 at 7:51 PM

There are links between the Christian and Arab families in Spain, but no proven modern descents from the Arabs. Lots of interesting possibilities, though.

The wife of Musa ibn Fortun and of Íñigo is unknown.

“All we know from the primary record is from ibn Hayyan (as abstracted by Levi Provencal and Garcia Gomez) who reports that Wannaco ibn Yannaco (from context, identical to the man known to historians as Inigo Arista) joined his half brother on the mother's side, Musa ibn Musa, in rebellion. Later in the decase, his brother Fortoun ibn Wannaco, the foremost 'knight' of Pamplona, was killed supporting his half-brother Musa. Thus we have three siblings, Musa by Musa, and Fortun and Inigo by Inigo.  We also know that Musa had a sibling Lubb ibn Musa (from ibn Hazm), but no indication of his mother is given.  Finally, Fortoun ibn Musa (k. 802) and Mutarrif ibn Musa (k. 799) have been suggested as siblings, but they seem significantly older than Musa ibn Musa, so I doubt they were children of Inigo's mother. (Of course, the new reconstruction would put them two generations earlier.)” Todd A. Farmerie, New reconstruction of early Banu Qasi at soc.genealogy.medieval (Feb. 4, 2011).

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medi...

There is a lot of early Spanish material at soc.genealogy.medieval, most of it not yet touched by Geni users.

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5/28/2014 at 9:26 PM

There is no doubt that many links have existed between ruling Spanish and Arab families during the presence of the invading arabs in Spain for over 500 years until they were finally thrown out of the Peninsula, and many arab-origin last names such as Fortun and others remain until now among descendents of arab families which have arrived in America during the Colonial times as spaniards. In any case, it was customary among noble families in Europe to marry their children with the offspring of their enemies to form alliances and the same thing must have happened during the Arab occupation. There must exist documents to prove this theory some place, most likely in arab countries as the Inquisition was very active in Spain in the late 1400 and although they tolerated some Jewish converts to remain, it was because such families had some powerful strings. Many of the so-called "marranos" prompted their relatives to seek a career in the Catholic church and went on to hold important positions such as bishops or archbishops. I have read a book in Spanish called "La Mano de Fátima" which deals with such relationships. I don't have name of the author at hand. I'll try to find it. It must have been written in the 1990's.
By the way, although I am from Bolivia, I have been back, retired, since 1998, in the U.S. where I went to high school and college many years back and all my close family lives in the U.S. Cheers,
Rolando

5/29/2014 at 12:36 AM

So focusing on the profile under discussion, it seems that we have documentation for two husbands that fathered children with her, but no documentation for her name or her ancestry?

The primary source in question seems to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hayyan - writing more than 200 years after the events, so not exactly a contemporary source. Lots of opportunity for information to be lost there.

I'd like to have even an apocryphal source for her name and ancestry, but at the moment, cutting her parents away seems to be the most reasonable from a tree-tending perspective.

5/29/2014 at 1:11 AM

Her name is given in much later sources sometimes as Oneca, sometimes as Faquilene. No information on her ancestry. The sources for this period are meager. A lot was lost during the 15th and 16th centuries when lines were cleansed to eliminate the taint of non-Christian blood. As Rolando says, there is no doubt the connections existed, but the proofs have been lost.

Spanish historians have done a lot of reconstructive work in the past few decades, but they're still a long way from agreeing.

6/1/2014 at 10:43 PM

Lúcia Pilla are you OK with cutting the connection to her parents?

6/1/2014 at 11:20 PM

I realize now that the parents are fairly new - tagging Tirso de Mello Santos for his opinion and sources!

6/2/2014 at 12:58 AM

Based on information gathered so far, I'm cutting the connection - the proposed father was Unknown Father of Oneka ó Faquilene

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