Alicia 'Isabel' Boleyn - Possibly two different women

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/S5FD-K4J

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9CWC-6DG

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9QQ1-WKJ

That's an Isabel Boleyn married to William Cheney with a father of Geoffrey and Anne Hoo.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/3SX3-91T

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/936R-VMP

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SPZJ-RBL

Only the first of these three say she was the daughter of Geoffrey and Ann.

Then, there is this one for Allicia (Isabelle) married to a Henry Aucher Gent. of Otterden Manor with no date of birth or death for her.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M16Q-M5D

Total confusion with the dates on this one, but again, Alicia.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9S8N-R8R

And Isabella Alicia

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/936R-VMP

Doesn't it rather look like Anne and Alicia are two totally different people? Geoffrey's father Geoffrey had only males from the info I have, so for her to be the younger Geoffrey's sister doesn't make sense to me from the angle I'm seeing. I hope I haven't totally confused you, as I'm working on two family projects right now and can't see straight.

This is an interesting site, also:

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/BOLEYN.htm

If you would like, I will keep searching. Let me know if any of this makes sense.

Thanks, Carole,

Susie

Tudorplace does not give sources, but they can sometimes be signposts for further research. Take with appropriate amounts of salt, and cross-reference if you can.

The Boleyns are treated extensively in An essay towards a topographical history of the county of Norfolk, vol. 6, pp. 386-389, and recur on several later pages.

A modernized account (spelling regularized, nice clear font, etc.) can be found at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=78270

And oh yes, Geoffrey Boleyn is cited as having a daughter Alice who married Sir John Fortescue, Knt. AND a daughter Isabel who married William, son and heir of Sir John Cheyney, Knt.

No Henry Aucher is found in those pages.

Since these records are primarily concerned with the possession and transmission of land, they tend to be rather weak on collateral relatives unless a land transfer is involved.

The original Visitation(s) of Kent does not name Alicia's father. The Boleyns were noted as a prolific family (probably one of Henry VIII's rationalizations for marrying Anne Boleyn - too bad it didn't work out as planned) and there were relatives all over the place.

Tudor place, is a personally motivated and operated website and has few citations or certificates... for verification. I myself, have emailed their webmaster about their faulty information, without citation of Ellinor wife of John WHITNEY, Sr., who has, in fact, never been proven... to be a BRAY, that I have been able to locate or any other, researching these lines.
Elinor Whitney

However, there is a Mary Bray, (ironically, Ellinor would be Mary´s daughter in Law)... who HAS been certifiably proven to be the daughter of Margaret Haslonde and John Bray... Mary Whitney

I requested, on two occasions, a year apart... documentation of Ellin´s Birth- /Parentage etc... and never recieved any reply.

Oh (censored) - the Auchers have got themselves trapped in a timey-wimey loop!

Henry Aucher's Henry Aucher grandfather Henry Aucher, Lord of Losenham is also his nephew - with dating that supports the latter position but a wife Elizabeth Aucher (Digges) who belongs to the former.

I think we had a Bad Merge here - anyone want to try the experimental Merge Undo?

Private User
I have entered a un-merge request on 5/12/2014 for Henry John Aucher, seems he had been merged with two other individuals. There should be Henry Aucher husband of Elizabeth Digges parents of Henry; Henry Aucher husband of Elizabeth Guildford parents of Anne; Henry Archer husband of Elizabeth Clark parents of the 6 Archer children.

So please do not alter his profile for now.

OK. Once we get the Auchers sorted out, and hopefully correctly dated, we'll have a better idea about "Alicia/Isabel Boleyn". She rather obviously isn't a daughter of the Sir Geoffrey Boleyn who was Lord Mayor of London and direct ancestor of Queen Anne Boleyn. However, he had a pack of brothers, and his father was one of a pack of brothers also (what I said about Boleyns being prolific!), so there's a very good chance she's a collateral relative - a niece or a cousin or something like that.

Susan Angeline Schumacher Lostetter
Thank you for the links and your time spent.
The links to FamilySearch are actually personal Ancestral trees submitted there not any type of Record or Reference and I would not use these as references unless there is posted where the information came from.
At any rate the first three just list Isabel Boleyn married to William Cheney no mention of Henry Aucher.
the next six just list the marriage of Henry Aucher no mention of William Cheney.
I usually do post from Tudorplace and hope that it is used more of a hint. A lot of times you can be more sure if there are other references that also state the same information.

@Private User
Thank you also for your time, I posted the information listing Geoffrey/Geffrey Boleyn's dau. (including Isabel) on William Cheney's profile. I will upload images of the Aucher pedigree in The Visitation of Kent and source the profiles.

@Theresa Renée Eléna Tossas-Cox
Thank you, also I have seen miss information on Tudorplace, but just about every site/reference has some. Take every thing with a grain of salt.

Yes, absolutely. *grain of salt*

I just noticed. There are two husbands, for her (Lord Mayor of London) Hubby. more Mergables?

Anne Hoo, of Hastings

I believe that they are separate women and the two have been miss-merged as the Curator note on her father states "Merged with his father so locking." If Alicia & Isabel were miss-merged then also their father's would of been.

Now to determine which and what data pertains to who.

There also seems to be some issues in references about who the parents/father of Geoffrey Boleyn who married Ann Hoo/Hastings is. Either another
Geoffrey & Alice (possibly Bracton), and make him grandson of Thomas & Anne (possibly Bracton)
or
son of Thomas & Anne (Bracton)
:o(

Ladies, thank you so much for straightening things out and for the good advice on where to find things. Curators are special people...........smile.

Susie

Okay, only two references, thepeerage.com & theweald.org, list Geoffrey (husband of Ann Hoo/Hastings) as the son of Thomas and four references list as the son of Geoffrey & Alice Boleyn, who he is attached to already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Boleyn says
dau. Isabella m. Henry Aucher

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p513.htm#i... says
dau. Isabella m. William Cheney
dau. Alice m. John Fortescue

http://www.thepeerage.com/p326.htm#i3252 has nothing for Alice or Isabella

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/BOLEYN.htm#Geoffrey BOLEYN (Lord Mayor of London) has
dau. Elizabeth/Alice m. John Fortescue
dau. isabella m. William Cheney
dau. Alice m. John Clere

'Hundred of South Erpingham: Blickling', An Essay towards a Topographical History of the County of Norfolk: volume 6 (1807), pp. 381-409. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=78270 has
dau. Alice m. Sir John Fortescue, Knt.
dau. Isabel m. William Cheyney

http://www.theweald.org/N10.asp?NId=6000221 has
dau. Alice m. John Clere
dau. Isabel m. William Cheney

The only two places I can find Henry Aucher's wife Alicia/Isabel Boleyn listed with a parent/parents is
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/BOLEYN.htm#Isabel BOLEYN1
lists Isabel dau. of Geoffrey & Alice Boleyn as wife of Henry Aucher, she would then be sister of Geoffrey who married Anne Hoo
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Boleyn
husband of Ann Hoo, has listed dau. Isabella m. Henry Aucher

This is the only site that lists a dau. Isabel, no others give a Isabel, Alice or Alicia listing for him. Wiki lists that the younger George had siblings mentioning three unknown sisters along with a sister Cecily.

So that is four references to Isabel dau. of Geoffrey & Ann Hoo as being wife of William Cheney
&
one reference to their dau. being wife of Henry Aucher.

Could be then that Alicia wife of Henry Aucher was the dau. of Geoffrey & Alice Boleyn.

This should say "Tudorplace is the only site that lists for George & Alice a dau. Isabel, no others give a Isabel, Alice or Alicia listing for him. Wiki lists that the younger George had siblings mentioning three unknown sisters along with a sister Cecily.

Wikipedia depends on what people tell it, and anyone can post or edit anything - it is only as reliable as the last person to edit it. (And if they used bad sources, the information will be bad too.)

Our Royal etc., ThePeerage, and Tudorplace are not reliable, period - they are compilations of compilations of compilations, tertiary at best, and extremely biased in favor of finding royal/noble connections wherever possible.

The "Hundred of South Erpingham" source is the "History and Antiquities of the county of Norfolk" and/or "An essay towards a topographical history of the county of Norfolk" (which was based, sometimes verbatim, on the former), and if it says something was there, it was there. Isabella Boleyn Cheney still has a brass in the chancel of the church of St. Andrew's, Blickling, explicitly naming her as the wife of William Cheney "Armiger" (an obsolete equivalent to Esq.) and showing her arms as Cheney impaling Boleyn. This is in among a fine collection of brasses which all pertain to the Boleyn family and mainly to the family of Sir Geoffrey Boleyn (who himself isn't represented there - he died in London and was buried in a church that was destroyed in the Great Fire). That's about as conclusive as you can get short of actual birth, baptismal, marriage and burial records.

Found a picture of Isabella's brass and uploaded to the profile I made for her (which should have the correct information). She is wearing a "butterfly" hennin, which was all the rage for maybe a decade between 1475-1485 but went out of fashion completely after that. This agrees with the information that she died in 1485.

Isabella (my version): Unknown Profile

Then I think Maven & I are thinking that Isabella was dau. of Geoffrey & Ann Hoo and was married to William Cheney.

And Alicia was dau. of Geoffrey & Alice and wife of Henry Aucher.

I will wait a few days and see if there is any more replies to this discussion or new information, before changing any of the profiles.

Getting back to milady Boleyn of Hoo and Hastings - Sir Geoffrey left her a relatively young widow (not yet forty), and a few sources (including the Antiquities and the Topographical History of Norfolk) claim that she took a certain "Sir Thomas Fenys" as a second husband. No more is known of him than that.

If this is of any interest: presented as fyi only.
http://www.geni.com/path/Isabella+Cheney+is+related+to+B+M+Rice?fro...

I'll see your "5th cousin 16 times removed" and raise you a "16th great uncle's wife" and a (more likely) "second cousin 15 times removed". :-D

Uber Cool! Thank you. DCR

The un-merge is done on Henry Aucher, Lord of Losenham and I see no one has entered anything new or objections to making Isabel Boleyn dau. of Ann (Hoo) & Geoffrey & Alicia Boleyn dau. of Alice & Geoffrey as separate Profiles and attaching William Cheney with Isabel and Henry Aucher with Alicia.
I will proceed with the changes.
New profile for Alicia Aucher dau. of Alice & Georffrey Boleyn, wife of Henry Aucher

I have merged in Maven's Isabella Boleyn to Isabel Boleyn wife of Sir William Cheney

Sorry to sound nitpicky, but do you really not understand the prefix mis- (meaning wrong, wrongly, bad, badly, no or not), as in misadd, misinformation, mistake, etc.? It's just hard for me to see how you can expect people to believe the accuracy of your genealogy info when your spelling is so inaccurate, and so easily correctable.

Geni does not allow editing for ANY reason, not even to correct casual typoes. Once you hit "Post Reply", whatever you wrote stays there unless you delete it (and it's generally not worth deleting for a casual typo).

So no, spelling errors are NOT easily correctable. They're not correctable AT ALL. (And no, neither you nor anyone else will get it 100% correct 100% of the time - guaranteed.)

With errors so easily preventable. Genealogy is all about accuracy. A willingness to admit one doesn't know (how to spell) something and proofreading before hitting post will eliminate mistakes. Until a couple of people who posted here change, I will have to take what they say with a "grain of salt."

I didn't read all the above. All I noticed was that this Geoffrey I Boleyn has a wife and mother by the same name, which is incorrect. His mother's name is listed on Wikipedia as Agnes with no maiden name given:

Geoffrey Boleyn (d. 1440) of Salle in Norfolk (son of Thomas Boleyn (d. 1411) of Salle and his wife Agnes[3]), whose monumental brass survives in Salle Church, by his wife Alice Bracton, daughter and heiress[4] of Sir John Bracton of Norfolk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Boleyn