Misschien moeten we de naam van dat project veranderen? Het is vooral een kwartierstaat, dus misschien Dutch Royal Family Pedigree of Ahnentafel? Lijkt me duidelijker. Maar, ik zou alvast iets doen rond Oranje als huis - maar dat is wél een reusachtig project - voorlopig misschien beperken tot een rij van de oudste tot de meest recente Nassau, met bij elk huwelijken en kinderen? Dat kan nadien dan uigebreid worden met de zijtakken.
Heeft iemand wellicht al een basis (met nummering) die we proper kunnen copiëren en in een project plakken?
de waanzin ten top, een serieuze genealoog ergert zich hier toch zodanig aan dat hij met een site die op deze wijze werkt bij voorbaat al niets van doen wil hebben ?
http://www.geni.com/c/6b9061df46af4f030ff364490141b45d6e3abb33
Arnold Stephen Jacobs is Jacobus Frederik Theodorus Bergman's 78th cousin 42 times removed!
FRED BERGMAN
You
→
Jacobus (Co) Frederik Theodorus Bergman
your father
→
Jacobus Frederik Theodorus Bergman
his father
→
Dirk Theodorus Bergman
his father
→
Jacobus Bergman
his father
→
Theodorus (Dirk) Jacobsz Bergman
his father
→
Catharina (Trijntje) Simonsdr Steenvoorden
his mother
→
Aaltje Ariens van der Salm
her mother
→
Arij Jansz van der Salm
her father
→
Jan Jacobsz van der Salm
his father
→
Jacob Willemsz van der Salm
his father
→
Willem Adriaensz van der Salm
his father
→
Adriaen Willemsz van der Salm
his father
→
Willem Pietersz van der Salm
his father
→
Katrijn Willemsdr van de Poele
his mother
→
Willem Jansz Aelman
her father
→
Jan Aelman
his father
→
Guillaume III 'le Bon' d'Avesnes
his father
→
Philippa de Luxembourg
his mother
→
Marguerite de Bar
her mother
→
Philippa de Dreux
her mother
→
Robert II de Dreux
her father
→
Robert de Dreux
his father
→
Louis VI Thibaut 'le Gros' de France
his father
→
Philippe I de France
his father
→
Henri de France
his father
→
Robert II 'le Pieux' de France
his father
→
Hugues 'Capet'
his father
→
Hugues "Magnus" de Paris
his father
→
Robert
his father
→
Adélaïs / Aélis de Tours
his mother
→
Hugues «le Méfiant»
her father
→
Haicho
his father
→
Berswinde d'Austrasie
his mother
→
Siegbert "der Heilige" d'Austrasie
her father
→
Dagobert Meroving
his father
→
Chlothar "le Jeune"
his father
→
Frédégonde
his mother
→
Chrotechilde of the Ostrogoths
her mother
→
Audofledis of the Salian Franks
her mother
→
Childéric I
her father
→
Chlodeswinthe (Verica) des Francs
his mother
→
Ildégonde des Francs
her mother
→
Marcomir
her father
→
Chlodio IV
his father
→
Dagobert II
his father
→
Athildis
his mother
→
Gauthier des Francs
her father
→
Chlodius III
his father
→
Bartherus
his father
→
Childéric
his father
→
Sunno
his father
→
Farabert
his father
→
Chlodomir
his father
→
Marcomir IV
his father
→
Odomir
his father
→
Richemer
his father
→
Ratherius
his father
→
Antenor IV (III)
his father
→
Chlodomir III
his father
→
Marcomir III
his father
→
Chlodio II
his father
→
Francio
his father
→
Antharius King of the of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Cassander of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Merodocus of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Clodomir II of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Antenor II of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Chlodius I of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Marcomir II of the Sicambrii
his father
→
Nicanor
his father
→
Sedanus of Sicambria
his mother
→
Basanus King of Sicamber (-0241 B.C.)
her father
→
Diocles King of Sicamber
his father
→
Helenus I King of Sicamber
his father
→
Priamus King of Sicamber (-0375 B.C.)
his father
→
Antenor I King of Sicamber
his father
→
Marcomirus I King of Troy (-0411 B.C.)
his father
→
Antenor King of Troy (-0440 B.C.)
his father
→
Helenus King of Troy
his father
→
Priam King of Troy
his father
→
Marcomir King of Troy
his father
→
Diluglio King of Troy
his father
→
Plaserius III Van Commeria
his father
→
Helenus III / II Van Commeria
his father
→
Dilulius I Van Commeria
his father
→
Almadius I Van Commeria
his father
→
Gentilanor V Van Commeria
his father
→
Priamos III Van Commeria
his father
→
Alexandros King of Troy
his father
→
Basabelian II King of Troy
his father
→
Plesron II King of Troy
his father
→
Helenus II
his father
→
Priamos II Van Commeria
his father
→
Antenor I Antenor
his father
→
Plaserius II Plaserio
his father
→
Zaberian Of Cimmerians Gaberiano
his father
→
Eliacor I Of Cimmerians Eliacor
his father
→
Plesron I I King Of Plesron
his father
→
Plaserius I I King Of Plaserio
his father
→
Basabelian I I King Of Basabiliano
his father
→
Zelius Of Cimmerians Gelio
his father
→
Esdron
his father
→
Francus Of Cimmerians Franco
his father
→
Cestrinus Of Cimmerians Genger
his father
→
Helenos I King of Troy
his father
→
Πρίαμος
his father
→
Laomedon
his father
→
llus
his father
→
Tros King of Troy
his father
→
Erichthonius "the Dardanian" King Of Dardania
his father
→
Dardanus - Дардан - Δάρδανος .
his father
→
Zerah / זרח .
his father
→
Judah / יהודה .
his father
→
Jacob / Israel / יעקב / ישראל / يَعْقُوب
his father
→
Isaac / יצחק / إسحاق .
his father
→
Abraham / אברהם / إبراهيم .
his father
→
Amethelo / אמתלאי .
his mother
→
Cornebo / כרנבו .
her father
→
Heraclim .
his father
→
Peleg / פלג / فالخ .
his father
→
Joktan / Qahtan / יקטן .
his brother
→
Ya'rub (Yarbah) Qahtan al-Nasib ibn Qahtan
his son
→
Yashjub Ya'rub Qahtan ibn Kahlan ibn Saba' ibn Yashjub ibnYa'rub ibn Qahtan al-Kindah
his son
→
سبأ Abd Shams (Sab'a) "The Great" ibn Yashjub
his son
→
Kahlan Abd Shams Yashjub ibn 'Abd Shams al-Hirah
his son
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Zayd ibn Zayd ibn Yashjub ibn 'Arib ibn Kahlan ibn Saba' ibn Yashjub ibnYa'rub ibn Qahtan al-Kindah
his son
→
Malik ibn Zayd
his son
→
Nabt ibn Malik
his son
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الغوث بن نبت Alghawth bin Nabt ibn Nabt
his son
→
al-Azd ibn al-Gaith
his son
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Mazin ibn al-Azd
his son
→
Th'labah ibn Mazin
his son
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Imri' al-Qays ibn Th'labah
his son
→
Th'labah ibn Imri' al-Qays
his son
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Hareth al-Qhitrif ibn Th'labah
his son
→
'Amr Ma' Al-Sama ibn Harith Al-Ghitrif
his son
→
ʿAmr Mazaykiya Tarifa ibn 'Amr Ma' Al-Sama
his son
→
T̲h̲aʿlaba ibn 'Amr Mazaykiya
his son
→
Ḥārit̲h̲a Haritha
his son
→
Rabīʿa Luhayy
his son
→
ʿĀmir Luḥaiy ibn Rabīʿa
his son
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'Amr Ka'b Ka'b
his son
→
'Amr Salūl ibn 'Amr Ka'b
his son
→
Ḥubs̲h̲īya Salūl al-Ḵh̲uzāʿa
his son
→
Hulail Ḥubs̲h̲īya al-Ḵh̲uzāʿa
his son
→
Ḥubbaiy "Chavah" Hulail al-Ḵh̲uzāʿa
his daughter
→
Imaam ‘Abd al-Manāf Imaam Quṣayy
her son
→
Imaam Hashim (A'mr ul-U'la) Imaam ‘Abd al-Manāf
his son
→
Assad Imaam Hashim
his son
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Adai Assad bin Hashim
his daughter
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Haninai al-Nehar Peḳkod bar Adoi
her son
→
Hananya "Dayan of the Gate" ben Haninai bar Adai
his son
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Meiri "Mari" ben Hananiah haKohen al-Nahr Peḳod
his son
→
Hillel "Hilai" ben "Mari"
his son
→
Mar Ivomai Mishael ben Hillel Kohen Zedeq
his son
→
Hophni "Boaz" Kohen Ṣedeq ben Ivomai
his son
→
Eleazar ibn Shmuel al-Hurga
his son
→
Natronai Yosef "Mari" haKohen
his son
→
Kohen Ṣedeq II "Yakob" ben Yosef
his son
→
Ḥophni Yosef Kohen
his son
→
Shmuel haKohen
his son
→
???? bat Samuel ben Hophni Nagid I
his daughter
→
דוד David ben Zakkai
her son
→
Chyzkiya II Gaon ben David
his son
→
Yitzhak ben Chyzkia, Nasi
his son
→
Mar Solomon Shealtiel "Felez Ferruz" Pattish haHazak
his son
→
Bonadona bat Mar Shealtiel Ibn Lakhtush
his daughter
→
Reina bat Mar Shealtiel
her daughter
→
unknown bat Perfet Sheshet Nasi
her daughter
→
Abraham ben Reuben
her son
→
unknown bat Abraham ben Isaac of Narbonne
his daughter
→
Yitzhak (Isaac the Blind) Saggi Nehor
her son
→
Moshe ben Yitzhak HaLevi HaYarhi
his son
→
Abba Mari "Don Astruc" de Lunel
his son
→
Clarice de Lunel ben ben Moses Yarhi
his daughter
→
? de l'Estoile
her daughter
→
Baruch ha Nasi de l'Estoile
her son
→
David de l'Estoile
his son
→
Melech Shem Tov Stern
his son
→
Nevia Stern
his daughter
→
Moshe Stern Segal
her son
→
Nissel Reisel (Rachel?) Ursula Ashkenazi Stern
his daughter
→
Pinchas HaLevi Horowitz
her son
→
Hinda Halevi Horowitz
his daughter
→
Telza Katzenellenbogen
her daughter
→
Rabbi Moshe Rivkas "Be'er Hagolah"
her son
→
Petakhiah Rivkas
his son
→
Rivka Rachel or Dvora (bat Petakhia)
his daughter
→
Yissachar Dov Ber Ber
her son
→
שלמה זלמן לנדוי
his son
→
Eliyahu / אליהו הגר"א Zalman
his son
→
Rabbi Avraham Vilner
his son
→
Rabbi Yaakov Moshe Vilner
his son
→
N. Landau
his son
→
Ezekiel Cass Zunenstein
his son
→
Elias Laz Sunstein
his son
→
Ann Sunstein
his daughter
→
E. Jacobs
her daughter
→
Arnold Stephen Jacobs
her son
As soon as possible!
I cannot remember that I would keep this line in tact, I cutted as much I thought was incorrect, but I was cleaning around Charlemagen and not the mythes. My knowledge stopped with the fake profile of Francus, imagined by the French royalty to convince their inheritance from ancient greecs.
Seems to me my 60th grandfather Franco's profile contains a good description of the legend. I don't see why he should need a father on Geni.
Francio, King of the West Franks (Fictitious)
Cuts lower down are possible, of course. But I wouldn't know where from the profiles I sampled.
Justin, I was so mad to work 7 days a week 12 hours a day for Geni and I cleaned all what I saw that was with a lot of burden. You know how many and different profiles there were in that lineages. I tried to restrict that. Don't misunderstand me, I see the worth of mythes and religions and they are allowed to have a place in the trees, but not in the Big Tree for really existed people! As long as they are standalone I don't have problems with that. But as soon there are connections with living people I disagree !
Fred, I think we agree that the duplicates had to be merged before the line could be cut. I don't blame you for that.
Harald, there are several good places to cut and Francio is one of them. I agree with Wikipedia that he is an invention of Merovingians, but he could be much older. Nennius, for example, has a nice little schema that points to a wider European tradition -- although certainly not including the Trojans!
In Les Crandes Chroniques (16th century) there is an earlier Francio, King of the Cimmerians. He was made (implausibly) son of the Trojan prince Cestrinus. He would also be a good place to cut because that would eliminate even more of the Frankish lines to Troy. However, I think we need the permission of curator Henn Sarv to cut there.
I cut the line to the later Francus.
If you want the line to be cut for the earlier Francus, post here:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/135489?msg=940863
Dit is een leuke: Gonçalo de Almeida de Sousa e Sá, 9.º Senhor do morgado da Cavalaria stamt af van zowel God als Uranos. Echter, God is zijn 73ste overgrootvader en Zeus z'n 89ste. Zou Uranos ouder kunnen zijn dan God? Misschien volgens de Grieken wél, wie weet. Arme Gonçalo, want hoe te kiezen tussen twee voorvaders die allebei claimen de wereld te hebben geschapen? Geni schat de geboorte van Uranos op 2330-2270 BC, die van God op 3825-3765 BC. De generatiekloof kan natuurlijk uitgelegd worden doordat mensen destijds soms makkelijk 400 jaar oud werden. Wél een genealogische kluif voor de ruim 500 bekende afstammelingen van Gonçalo op Geni: klopt het God-pad of klopt het Uranos-pad? Als je voor de ene kiest krijg je wellicht herrie met de rest van de familie. Net als bij erfenissen of in geopolitiek. Je moet ze maar hebben, twee zulke voorouders!
IK ga voor URANUS, dat is me een planeet! Als je die in je sterrebeeld hebt ---is me zowaar overkomen zo tussen mijn veertigste en zestigste levensjaar--- maak je heel veel mee. Nou, die astrologe heeft gelijk gekregen hoor! Maar gelukkig heeft-ie weer het hazepad genomen in het Heelal en geniet is nu van een rustige baan op deze AARDIGE globe.
Het probleem met genealogie is dat rond de jaren 1200 je niet meer kan zoeken naar de vertrouwde familienamen. Ik onderzoek bvb de familie van den Brande. Ik heb ontdekt dat rond 1400 een zekere Aert Van den brande gehuwd was met Joanna Van Boechout. En Boechout is een kleine gemeente in Vlaanderen. De voorouders van Joanna zijn afkomstig uit Kraainem en noemden zich dus van Kraainem. Die hun voorouders kwamen van Anderlecht en noemden zich Van Anderlecht. Het komt er dus op aan inventief te zijn. En dat heb ik ook gedaan. Na enkele weken zat ik al met links tot bij Keizer Karel en vandaag heb ik de oudste stamvader to nu toe ontdekt. Quintun Ancius Paulinus II , geboren in Frankrijk in 180 en gestorven te Rome in 230. Niet opgeven dus......
Ik durf bijna niet deze discussie te heropen. Vooral als de discussie rond 1200 gestopt is maar:
De afstammelingen van Willem van der Specke zijn in twee kampen verdeeld. De eerste gelooft er dat hij een bastaard zoon is van Dirck van Hollant de Landscommandeur en de groep die denkt dat het niet te bewijzen valt en dus er niet in gelooft.
Ik weet niet of het thuis hoort in het rijtje bedenkelijke voorouders.
Jeroen, ik zie dat je de discussie ook startte in het profiel, dus ik denk dat commentaar daar thuis hoort? (Uiteindelijk lijken de profielmanagers de naaste betrokkenen bij de discussie).
Er stond op het profiel van Willem van der Specke geen MP, dus dat was handig en ik heb hem meteen afgekoppeld van z'n "vermeende" voorouders. "Vermeend", tenzij verdere discussie natuurlijk meer historisch inzicht biedt :-)
Private stuurde me net deze link door die volgens mij best de aandacht verdient: http://www.keesn.nl/graven/
Het gaat over de moeilijkheid om de oorsprong van de graven van Holland vast te leggen, en belicht meteen ook de beperkingen van onderzoek dat nochtans vlot wordt gereferenceerd in online genealogieën. Een artikel dat kan helpen indien iemand zich geroepen voelt om de graven van Holland eens definitief aan te pakken!
Ik krijg net de melding door dat Aldert Dircksz van Hodenpijl nooit bestaan heeft.
Hij is verzonnen om de de niet-adellijke tak Hodenpijl te verbinden aan de adellijke tak.
Je hebt de heren van Hodenpijl en familie die komt uit het de plaats of werkte bij de heren van Hodenpijl.
Hij is verzonnen door Gijsberti van Hodenpijl, een heel knap genealoog. Zijn familie snapt ook niet waarom hij dat gedaan heeft. De enige reden is dat hij zelf wilde afstammen in mannelijke lijn van de adelijke familie Van Hodenpijl.