Rice Pudding Part 2, Quest For Truth

Have you gone to Sampson Lort in blue in the post immediately above and seen that he's the Husband of Olive Phillips Lort? Anne Phillips is listed as her mother, Sir John PERROTT her father, and Henry VIII his Father?

W and I were doing explorator work and I thought he could see what I see but we werre just looking at the same page in order to discuss it....My Bad, I did not understand that at the time....DCR

I do hope you and W can trace the Sampson Lort connection to both Lettice ap RICE and Olive Phillips...It reaveals 1/2 the story that my father conveyed in 1978....Sir John PERROTT connected to our Ancestor Perrott ap Rice via Perrott's sister LEttice....Having now discovered that simple Truth...I can now look for the confirming doccuments on my end for the family of Mary Hall, Rice who's parents were Foote & Churchill.....That will conclude the first half of the search for TRUTH....Indeed Sir John Perrott connects us by marriage and his father connects to the RICE's by Blood via Wm. Carey.... Im now satisfied that the connection is real verified by GENI.....The second half of the story is Margaret MERCER and her father. Regards DCR 1948

So to rephrase

http://www.geni.com/path/Henry+VIII+King+of+England+is+related+to+S...

Henry VIII, King of England
→

Sampson Lort is Henry VIII, King of England's great granddaughter's husband!

Dale - it's your Quest, your family, your research. It's up to you to validate the story, step by step. I have my own tree & connections to find, my own Quests, & "family stories" to make sense of. :)

My "story" is not about the Tudors so I am just following along here.

Your rephrase is correct but leaves out that Sampson Lort is also husband to PERROTT ap Rice's sister.. Lettice.....that's the entire point Im making and I've had some pretty pointed comment from others along my search....Im just stunned that I was not able to discern the connection for 8 months. Regards DCR 1948

I agree completely W: It's just that what I thought you taught me about sharing a screen was not what I thought it was....so I thought I was doing the right thing....in any event we are all on our journey's that's my point here as well, and the information developed here makes my quest worth while. I do wish that Perrott ap RICE 1600 had been kept up on the tree for a couple of weeks...since he's clearly connected to the Tudor Prince story....It would not have taken 8 months to find Sampson Lort I can assure you of that. Regards, DCR 1948 OUT!

No apologies required W: Im the one who din't understand....in any event we are 50% there....the rest is private stuff, obtaining marriage records for our FAMILY doccument which will have the proper certificates....otherwise we just have speculation: The last half of this quest is Margaret Mercer and since she is Perrott ap Rice's mother and the story involves underage girls being abused by persons above the age of 17 we have a long way to go....but not as far as last March....We now know that Agness Locke Agnes Locke is my direct blood ancestor which we did not know before...The De Vere name on the tomb relates to the French Side of the Tudor connection....don't know who Roche is or the other V name.....and Mercer 22 has some great possibilities...one is John Perrott II....X 2 = 22 and or another luminary born on the 22nd.... That the name Locke was related to JOHN LOCKe and Michael Lock was a Mayor of London......none of that was known before March of this year.......soThis side will liekly be harder...to prove a real connection......I hope Im wrong because Im not sure how much longer I can devote to the hunt.......DCR 1948

can you expand on your question; re; de vere ? i go into that lineage, and, might be able to help you

Hello: The DeVere name appears on a Tomb for my 9th great grandmother Margaret Mercer 1580 I believe they connect to the De Velvilles? of HenryVII time in France before 1485...Pointing possibly to a Tudor descendant father??? Thankyou for you interest. DCR Margaret Mercer

De Vere is I think considerably older than that. Not saying what a cadet branch might have been up to, but the De Vere Earls of Oxford go back to the early 12th century and the family itself came over circa 1066.

This might be a clue toward what you're looking for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katheryn_of_Berain

Thankyou Maven: Right on the money, DeVelville connection and all....I do recalling the Salisbury name from that infamous conversation...being 28 at the time all I could think of was "Salsbury STEAK" LOL such was point of reference and paucity of understanding.....That was a very helpful link.....I calculated that she would have been 17 at the time of her marriage....so not all that young.....but still a very important clue....My understanding is that John Perrott II would have been the heir if you will of these names by his famous grandfather....and a contemporary of Jane Locke.....Im headed over there....many thanks for the assist....as always right on target....DCR 1948

Well That's a stunning piece of news....Actually: In revisiting the Adopted Colley person connected to Agness Locke and Jane Locke....it's clear that Jane died in Childbirth or childbed fever...and My conversation with my DAD was about the Colley's....one of whom I attended school with...clearly not the same family but I was making all the assoociations to my world....so DeVere connects to Perrott II how? What a great find WWWWW!!!!

As it happens: I had found Robert Vychan Tudur Vaughan ap Robert Fychan and that puts him close to J.Perrott II? Not sure Im tracking here but just looking to see if there is a relationship....DCR

Hello Justin: My DNA test results confirm 25 for 25 match to reconstructed John Rice 1624 and Samuel Rice of Con. Also a match for DAVIS 1650 in S.Carolina....thus Perrott ap Rice is in AMERICA and conducting business with his cousin John Barlow former sheriff of Pembrokshire....
2) Perrott ap Rice's Sister Lettice was married to SAMPSON LORT also married to Olive Phillips Lort great grandaughter of HENRY TUDOR via Sir John PERROTT.....
3)Confluance of lives Agness Locke is my 8th First Cousin putting Wm. Lock and Jane Wilkerson into the FAMILY BLOODLINE....
4) John Perrott II and Perrott ap RICE 1600 are brother's in law as is Sampson LORT...
5) The persons in the CONVERSATION relating to PERROTT include the LOCKE's The Colley's, Mayor of LONDON Wm Wilkinshon etc.
6) Name on the Tomb of Margaret MERCER 1580 Tenby Perrott's mother includes DeVERE & ROCHE & Verney....That's what we have, and the Mt. DNA test is being analized as we commune here...no Baptismal Record as of yet....So Still the Oral History being reinforced by many names....Regards DCR 1948

Qute apart from circumstance is proof of the Churchill to Rice lineage is present and clear here on Geni...many such posts...The Tudor Prince is cleary the person of Sir John PERROTT come down from Perrot ap Rice 1600 to my ancestors and they connect through the various women who married into the line....see Margaret Woodville to my family RICE. When you say that DNA is Circumstantial evidence that PERROTT ap RICE was breeding in AMERICA 1650 in the descendents of Captain John RICE Hughes....I don't know what to say except that perhaps there is more here than you know....There are many others with his DNA after 1650....Kind Regards DCR

Dale

Is there any reason to think the DNA match to "DAVIS 1650 in S.Carolina" is from the John Rice b 1624 line?

Frankly I'm very confused about it. It's a Y DNA test, there's nothing on the John Rice of Dedham male descent line like it.

Do you have a link to any (doesn't have to Geni) online description of this family?

Once I know what you refer to I can maybe find the family on Geni.

But right now it's baffling me. Massachusetts people & North Carolina people did not mix.

Still don't, actually. :)

Yes Erica: Thanks for the Question....The Descendent line of Captain John Rice Hughes of Virginia aka Perrott ap RICE 1600 shows an exact match with my DNA and the Daughter of John Rice Hughes married into the DAVIS line....So went from Rice-Hughes to DAVIS....I don't know why someone matching my DNA born in S. Carolina would have that except that John Rice Hughes was a trader and owned a Merchant Vessel making ports of call in the Native American Trade.....Im Aware the Names don't line up but Im going by DNA only here. Regards DCR

Yes, well the Easiest Explaination is almost 99% the correct explaination in solving a Forensic Mystery which is what we have here....so Keeping it Simple. Regards DCr

Dale - thank you, perhaps you can @ link that family for us? (Capt John Rice Hughes of Virginia),

Do you follow what Justin explained?

The 25 / 25 Y DNA match indicates that there is a common male ancestor living sometime between the year 0 common era and 1086 common era, of the haplogroup I - 1, rare in Wales (that is, less likely to be of ancient Welsh origin).

Justin: Im the one who didn't understand the names and relationships....back in 1978....The fact that I have recall of them now is miraculous in iteself but as i discovered them here at GENI the associations I made came back to me and how they are all proved here is what tells me the information was true then as it was when it happened....I simply waited too long to start looking....This kind of investigation has to start from the assuption that he spoke the TRUTH if he had not understood it or garbled it to me then none of the names would have come to light as i read them here....would connect or make sense....That's as deductive as it gets....We are still following the leads where they take us and we now know tons more than we did in March....DCR

Erica, I just Googled Captain John RICE HUGHES and the entire world opens up .....so sorry I have no link....The American side of the Question is another quest in itself....so I am working on MArgaret MERCEr and understanding the DeVere, Valens, Roache, MERCER 22 names on her tomb in TENBY....To find out who is the FATHER....since William MERCEr had only one child of record and his name was JOHN...Margaret is not likely to be his....Mercer 22 is the key in my view....Kindest Regards for all your Help...DCR

Trader ... Hughes

Thank you Justin - a good read.

- Do you see any proof of his parents?
- do you see any reason to believe he was "married" to "Nicketti" of the Powhatan confederacy?

Dale C. Rice would you be kind enough, before we progress to any next steps, to acknowledge understanding of what the Y DNA 25 / 25 suggests - a common ancestor of Haplogroup I -1 perhaps before the Norman conquest of Britain?

Perrott left Wales because he was not going to be inheriting the lands...He was not Thomas ap Rice's Son....Perrott is named for his father John Perrott II.... DNA results I have indicate the line preceeded WTC by 1,000 years....I fully understand that...it's rare in WALES for a REASON...Perrott is FRENCH and my people come from Northern FRANCE....according to the Y analysis done. Thomas ap Rice sponsored the Reverend Hughes as a non conformist preacher in WALES...they were early fundamentalist Puritans...I understand fully.Why do you ask?

W: Brilliant as usual....What I suspected is now more real than ever....I thank you....Necotowansee is the native name for Necketti of AMERICAN legend, she is the cousin to SMITH/Pocahauntas FAME and their connection was the native woman Cleopatra wife of the Powhattan CHIEF....THat's about all I had uncovered....but I was more focused on Margaret MERCER and understanding her connection to "THE STORY".....sorry W...perhaps we can discover Roache, and Verney....?

Dale

You really need to open up the Trader ... Hughes profile and read the notes in it before you continue pursuing that line of enquiry.

The way I approach every "legend" is with the utmost skepticism.

If it's a boring farmer - probably true.

If there's an Indian "princess" you better "show me" the best evidence for it or we dishonor those whose land we stole.

And if it's a 1st immigrant from "the old country," there needs to be documentation. Otherwise we need to consider it a lot of wishful thinking - or outright fraud.

And yes, there are a lot of fraudulent pedigrees "out there." They were a criminal activity designed to steal money from our hard working farmer ancestors.

Hopefully this is not news to you, you weren't born yesterday.

Yes, well the story is not about Captain Hughes....the story is about Margaret MErCer, mother of Perrott ap Rice with a very unusual name and a reason to flee his home, wife, and That's because he's not of the RICE clan as we thought.....Indeed, he's FRENCH just like the BLOOD in my veins...and there is no story here other than John RICE 1624 is Perrott's son as Claimed....The connections did not magically appear....I understand the GRIFFETH connection to the Story....that's what drew my attention, the near identical persons of the GRIFFETH's and the Perrott lineage. I am not the one pursuing the Captain John RICE REESE Hughes story.....That can only be an indicator of what's true in Wales....unless some one there is suggesting that Perrott ap Rice is not Margaret Mercer's son???? That's not my inquiry...I can live with the conflict...no one said this is 100% true....it's merely a marker along the way....Inductive reasoning assumes that the line could be wrong.... but investigates anyway...capishe? So let that story lay for another day....Im working on the MErCer 22 side for now. Regards DCR