Rice Pudding Part 2, Quest For Truth

Started by John Smith on Friday, October 25, 2013
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Showing 271-300 of 3037 posts

Dale - what is the name of Margaret Mercer's husband and what does it say in the Plaque in the photo of her memorial?

The description from the blog page is:

Although the tomb of Margaret Mercer may look cheerful with its bright colours, the story behind it is sad, but sadly commonplace. She died in childbirth in 1610 at the age of 30, having given birth to 10 children already. The kneeling man is her grieving husband and the seven sons and daughters surviving at the time of her death are lined up below her “sleeping” form.

Margaret Mercer was married to Thomas ap RICE 1570 son of John ap Rice 1540 son of William ap Rice 1470 ca son Sir Rhys ap Thomas 1449. The names of all the families listed are in the posts above see 3 days ago. The Coates of ARMS for Ap Rhys, Martin, Bateman,Roache, Valens, Devere and MERCER 22 are on the shield carved into the tomb as listed in the History of PEBROKSHIRE Article I posted 4 days ago with http address. I 'll see if I can find it again DCR

BTW directly to the image of the memorial to Thomas ap Rice and his 1st wife Margaret Mercer

http://squirrelbasket.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/tenbychurch-09.jpg

It can be downloaded to your computer and then uploaded to the profiles.

... Which I've now done for you. "Thank you" accepted. :)

Dale - this site has parents for Margred.

http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I63506&t...

I'll see if I can find them on Geni.

Margaret Mercer is your 15th great uncle's great granddaughter's husband's wife's mother. :)

Henry VIII, King of England is your 15th great uncle.

Many Thanks: I have others to upload as well but they are of the Church and Windows....Once I found the site I Emailed it to myself and then tried to forward onto GENI but no luck...so Kindness rembered....Now about William Mercer...In the Pembrokshire journals they listed only one child to he and his wife: John Mercer. So Im still skeptical about Margararet and Sister Francis....or perhaps that was a cousin also named William? Dunno.

The site I gave you is good - look at the Citations for it. You can find those sources yourself.

The Francis is a brother, not a sister. He married Letis Mathew of Pembrokeshire.

If i were you I would enter these profiles into Geni, including in the overview a link to where you got the data. You might want to upload each page as a document, and you can read how to do that here:

http://help.geni.com/entries/466680-How-can-I-add-a-Document-

Dale you need to start trying to use the FAQ and try these operations for yourself, you know. The only way to learn is by doing.

Thankyou: Odd that they don't give the Mother's Name on the Family Trees site....I will give it a whirl....

Dale here's one of the sources the FamilySearch tree is based on, you will notice from studying it that it includes the ap Rice family:

https://archive.org/stream/HeraldicVisitationsOfWalesAndPartOfTheMa...

Heraldic Visitations of Wales and Part of the Marches Between the Years 1586 and 1613 by Lewys Dwnn (1846), Dwnn, Lewys; transcribed and edited with notes by Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, (2 volumes. Llandovery: William Rees, 1846), vol. 1 p. 74.

I will add the link to the overview for Margred. I'm not sure I understand all of the text.

It does not appear the name of her mother was recorded by the Herald. But you have her father now, of Lancashire, and a brother and his family. That is immense progress.

I've uploaded the Herald's Visitation page, that way it will travel will the profiles and be part of the record. A lot easier to view images and documents from the profile than googling every time.

http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000023701527845

You can always also get there from

Margaret Mercer

Then the "media" tab

Then the "documents" view on the right side

Dale, here is a Mercer that I found in my tree. This Mercer looks to be from Aberdeen, Scotland and died in Germany. Possible connection somewhere?

Balthasar Mercer

Hey Ian: Thanks for that they do indeed connect at the Kennedy line which then connects to Lyon and Stewart lines...so even though he's a late arriver by our family imigration they don't touch except by name....I ran Margaret and Thomas ap Rice past the MERCEr MILLIONS site and they don't know of them...but Im delighted to know of him....Good eye!!!Regards DCR

Dale, what are cousins for? :) In his about section he looked to be a wealthy and prominent person. Just thought I would throw him out there while the discussion of the Mercer family was on the board.

Well it looks like we have settled on William Mercer as father of Margaret Mercer 1570....Moving onto Perrot ap Rice's Wife Margaret Littleton Sir Edward Littleton, MP, 1st Baronet I find that Sir Edward Littleton MP is my 5th cousin 7 tmes removed...but the Margarets don't seem to connect to Perrott 1600....the Margaret that I show as Littleton( maiden name) does not seem to connect to the illustrious Sir Edward Littleton that Genit shows as my direct link....W? or anyone? I will go back to their blood relatives and see if I can find her....DCR

W: To say that I am speechless is clearly an understatement......How? My goodness....I really don't know how you do this....I was flailing around knocking my head against the screen....Bravo, Thankyou, Bien Venitos, my, my, my, my,MY!!!!! Later DCR

Dale and W, do you even , not talk in complete circles. I have never finish one of either of yours long commentaries!

I have to report that these last few days on this THREAD put together by W....has yielded more information in 10 days, than the previous 354 combined....I am still the kid who grew up near destitute at one time when my mother was alone in the world with 7 children of the Nebraska Livestock Rancher/enterprenur.....but I have always believed that somewhere, somplace, I had a place in the history of my family and it's small slice of the AMERICAN experience.....Ms. Erica Please see Nicketti Hughes, Person of legend and the connection to the Pollard family. This is not over by a long shot I know that....but I hope you will continue to follow this developing story of OVERCOMMING in AMERICA.....That's where the greatness lies....Not within the story very old news of the Tudor's.....as Maven rightly points out....NONE of this would be possible without this FANTASTIC web-site and I promise to speak kindness, and gratitude for what's been extended to me.....Yours in kindest regard....DCR 1948

Here's My sign: Henry Carey son of Mary Carey and Henry Tudor: Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon Most direct connection until I have the Father of PERROTT ap Rice 1600 nailed down...The FRENCH blood is the Discovery here folks...and that must be the dominant X from Berkley's to Valois ? anyone care to hazard a guess how this shows up ? It requires completely rethinking the TUDOR bloodline IF it proves that JOHN PERROTT II is the father of Perrott ap RICE 1600....the circle would be complete then....and my recognition of these faces a year ago would have some DNA as a basis in fact....I don't think that is too far out to say...DCR

Ms. Erica: Magnificient find- That doccument took some 40 minutes to read and anohter 80 minutes to decode the Shiield on the Monument at TENBY....As suspected the French Names refer to the ANCESTORS of Isabel ? wife of Sir John Perrott..but must be an Earlier version:: The only ISOBEL I have discovered is Isobel Wardlaw is a MerCEr which comports with the Margaret MERCER figure married to Thoams ap Rice 1570....Is that a conclusion you could support? DCR

OK Dale - let me rephrase one of your questions and make sure I follow. Others welcome to join in.

You are asking if there is reason to think it possible that Sir Laurence Mercer, Kt. is an ancestor of William Mercer, of Ewelme

So let's start with what we know.

William Mercer, Esq., born (say) 1550, of Lancashire; known to have lived in Oxfordshire. He was the father of Margaret, who married a wealthy knight of Wales. He was also known to have a son (and heir?).

Laurence Mercer, knight, born in 1455, of Perthshire in Scotland.

That's 100 years distance - 3 & 1/3 generations. :). So there's at least 3 men, carrying the same surname, to track down.

There is also a great deal of physical and cultural distance to account for. Did Sir Laurence and Margaret even speak the same dialects?

What property & military alliances would have brought together these families? What political or religious patronage did they have in common? Were there any mercantile interests?

A lot of questions to account for coincidence of a not unusual surname ...

Okay then, No. Well, it was just a thought....! Regards for reviewing it...The Ediga Mercer I came across some time back...so it is just coincidence then, and I'll look into other issues...Good morrow to you. DCR

Also what is with this spelling of this last name? •Name AKA Wiliam Marssar

Maybe try and google and research this spelling to find William Mercer, of Ewelme

Is this just a pronunciation thing or the old spelling of this families name?

Just saying, I find this spelling quite interesting for some reason.

Although it is of early medieval French origin, this is an English and Scottish occupational surname for a trader, or merchant. It derives from the Old French word "mercier" or "merchier", from the Latin "mercarius", as agent derivative from "merx, mercis", merchandise. The word may have been introduced by the Normans after the Conquest of 1066. During the Middle Ages the term was used particularly of someone who dealt in textile fabrics, especially the expensive and luxurious types of cloth such as silks, satins, and velvets. Job-descriptive surnames originally denoted the actual occupation of the namebearer, and later became hereditary. The name was very early into Scotland, William Mercer witnessing two charters on behalf of the Abbey of Melrose in the year 1205, whilst Aleumnus Mercer, was bound over to keep the peace, as part of a bond between King Alexander 11 of Scotland, and King Henry 111 of England in the year 1244. Today there are a number of variant forms of the surname, these include Mercies, Marker, and Merchier(s). One family of the name "Merces" claim to trace their ancestry back to Thomas Mercer, who, in 1341, was empowered by Edward 111 to obtain money from the Constable of Bordeaux to raise troops in Aquitaine. Dorcas Mercer, aged 30 yrs., was one of the earliest colonists to the New World Colonies, embarking from London, England, on the "Assurance", bound for 'Virginea' in July 1635. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Gamel Mercer, which was dated 1168, in the "Pipe Rolls of Lincolnshire", during the reign of King Henry 11, known as "The Builder of Churches", 1154 - 1189. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Mercer#ixzz2ldl0fIv1

The name was very early into Scotland, William Mercer witnessing two charters on behalf of the Abbey of Melrose in the year 1205,

So here is a William in Scotland? Just sayin :)

Mercer is orginally French. As most of us well know, England was conquored by the French and a lot of the names that eventurally became normal English and Scotist names were orginally French.

Ms. Erica: You posted the Pembrokshire listing of Ancestors of Margaret MerCER and I think after looking at my notes the full answer is there but hard to see because of the Language: Can you put it back up? I can't seem to find it.....others may want to take a CRACK at deciphering the names...I show :THOMAS LE ROACH (builder of Roache Castle) to WM. LEVALENS esquire (both names on the TENBY TOMB SHIELD to ISOBEL ? + JOHN PERROTT OF SCOTTSBOROGH (not clear if it's Henry's alleged son) to DAVID PERROTT esquire of Wganoff wyston knight to JEVAN FoMarchly? Then John Perrott Esquire (presumed II ) + Elizoteth Eliott to ANN WYRIOTT + Wm. Perrott Esquire + a second woman : Jane Perrott Heir of Henri ap Gwillim + Thomas Perrott Earle of Abeystoycth. These are the notes I took from that site you had posted Earlier MS. E.....now it seems to be gone....Regards..DCR

Ian & JUDY: Thanks for the input on MERCER....THE very strong name associations with the FRENCH and my DNA test that shows the family I come from with I-1 Haplogroup was from NORTHERN FRANCE/ DENMARK as I have a Danish King in the cousin lineage as it stands without knowing PERROT ap Rice's of 1600 father. HIS name is PERROTT and the names listed on the TOMB of the Mother of PERROTT ap RICE....Margaret MERCEr refers back to these same Roache, LeValens, and Verney names so we have to be on the TRAIL HERE...Kind regards...DCR

See John Perrott 1497 John Perrot, of Scotborough

They just simply got Angosized once then got to England. Probably took awhile as William the Conq and the two henry's tried to wipe out English and almost successed. They wanted the language to be French.Of course that never happened. In the end English won out.le Parker became Parker le or de Bruce became the Brusce and later jusdt plain Bruce.Names like that. Fernald started out in France Swinnington la Zoucle all basice English names started out in france with either a le ,or de infront of them.

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