Friedrich Both, SV/PROG - Theunis Botha - Appel

lol :-)

Mense! Dit gons darem hier op die discussion blad oor die arme Appels en Bothas, ons kan werklik se dat ons n vrugte slaai is, ek is n afstammeling van die seun maar sal by Botha hou. Baie baie interresant, dankie vir al die inligting almal!

Plesier Cobie PJ Appel :-)

Toemaar Cobie, my Botha bloedniggies en nefies sê almal so.
☺☻◙♪♫☼

Juds

Good grief!! If the Botha's were my "goeie bloed" - I'd hate to think what went on with all the other family lines!!! Many thanks for all the research and hard work .. but I'm going to stick to Botha ....

Yes me to sticking to Botha

My wife too is sticking to Botha I will rather have her an Appel more . digestible you see. (Please please please don't ever tell her I make this remark)

What is it worth to you Martin - I have been communicating to you wife on eMail?
I might be silenced with a couple of Kg Kudu biltong! I appreciate what fear for a wife means!!

We recently received a query on our decision to show Appel as the father, and keep the Botha surname.

Shall we open this Discussion again, to hear people's thoughts on it?

Well done Sharon. But let us keep to the point and include all Botha's. I am one again and would also rather be a Botha than an "eetbare" Appel.☺

How do you mean, 'include all Botha's" Juds?:
-In the Discussion? - Do you want to call them here?
- Or all Bothas keeping the surname? - Which they will if we keep to the facts of using their registered surnames.?

I think that since the relevant 'Bothas' were known as 'Botha' until the recent DNA revelation, we should keep to that surname. Surely it would now create endless confusion to refer to them as 'Appel'?
It is similar to a scenario where a person is adopted at birth, never knowing their biological parent's names. They go through life with their adopted surname.
Friedrich and Maria (?) thought Theunis to be his child.
However, we surely cannot ignore the DNA evidence which proves that Appel was Theunis' father.

I dont think it is our descision to make. We asigned the correct biological father to the relevant profile and that as far as I am concerned is as far as we can go.

The Bothas are just one case that we know about. But let me assure you there will be millions of cases if the DNA testing is really starting to work through. Just think of the mix up

I more or less agree with Jansi.

I totally agree with Jansi, Peter and Martin.

I also agree that Theunis and his descendants' surnames remain Botha.

Theunis’s father was misattributed and in my opinion his FATHER should be shown on the tree as Ferdinandus Appel, if we want a correct tree, but Theunis & his descendants’ SURNAME - Botha, should NOT be changed as it reflects a legal reality.

I would propose the following. Please comment:

1) Geni logs the legal surname - so Theunis Botha & his descendants are still recorded as Botha on Geni.
This point appears to be agreed upon by most/all.

2) Geni logs the correct biological father where we know it - (especially now that we can use Geni to track DNA descent) - so we show Ferdinandus Appel as Theunis Botha's father on the Geni tree.
This point, I think is more controversial.

3) Geni logs correct relationships, and is able to update them in ways that printed archives are not in a position to do - thus the Devilliers Pama numbering system needs to be adjusted to show Theunis Botha as an Appel descendant, not a Botha one.
This point, I think, will be most controversial.

1) Yes absolutely

2) Yes, as it is a proven source..

3) Yes, as far as I know DVP no's should follow paternity.

Yes to 1) and 2).

I think the DVP numbering system should not be adjusted, if we keep Botha as his surname. It will create confusion.

FYI there is yet again a new Theunis Botha added.

Peter Dennis...Gone fishing! I don't see it. Please post the link.

Private you said =I think the DVP numbering system should not be adjusted, if we keep Botha as his surname. It will create confusion.=
I'm picturing tree view with a missing b1.
People will keep re-creating him.
To me, that might create more confusion.

Ahh, don't worry - I see it. I'll message the manager - Philip Botha - a new user. I'm sure he'll be interested to come and chat. I'll also invite him to collaborate on the Botha projects.

The new profile Theunis Botha :
Unknown Profile

I was going to merge it in, but I am not sure what to do with his son, there is a lot of activity on his profile... Christoffel Botha

You cannot have a missing b1, the other children will need to be renumbered...

In Botha terms he is b1. A legal fiction to make sense of the history.

This thought is not so thingy now that it is in the open, but I am sure that you understand what I am trying to convey!

Don, I've merged them in. Whatever the decision here about how to show Theunis' father - it cannot be to have a duplicate profile. Looking at Christoffel Botha now.

Philip has come back to me agreeing about keeping the name but indicating the Appel connection

He says that he lives in Duesseldorf, and has recently written to the church in Wangenburg to request more information on Friedrichs father Michael and grandfather Hans who was apparently born in Koeln, about 30 km from where he lives now.

Peter - What do you think about the problem of the numbers when you look at it on Tree-View? Theunis's profile will not be visible on the Botha tree, whatever his number, so the Botha children will start with b2.

My feeling is that he remains Theunis Botha b1 on the tree.