William the Conqueror, King of England - Hunting William the Conqueror's DNA

I have plenty to wear: My partner says too much but 3 weeks is a long stretch for a clutz like Moi...I have my Lamb Skin bomber jacket and a sliker...that should be enough...A Suit and Tie for Portrait at the Eiffle Tower and Tower of LONDON....We have VIDEO & Photo capabilites, my pen, and my sketch pad to record the sites I will sketch on the spot and color in later from the photo taken...." The Might Castle Carew, rises from a swampy mist on a thrust of land higer than the low plain the French Built a Tide Driven Wheel for grinding grain and weaving cloth....from spill of twice daily high tides.....The Giant stone Fortress held this part of WALES for a succesiion of Kings and Princes....my Ancestor Sir Rhy ap Thomas and a Distant Cousin Sir John PERrOTT each called the place HOME...as one point in their lives.....It still dominates the Flats like a Bruding Stone Animal, ready to pounce on those who dare it's gates: The MAW of HELLISH Fighting Welch PRINCES and their women.....It stands guard yet over the 6,000 acres between Dinefwr and the Coast...where Silver was mined not far from there.....to pay tribute to French Overlords.....It is a place full of anxious but rugged story.....I will soon see for myself!" DCR 1948

Happy trails! I am excited for you.

P.S. After you get your baptism record, you should start on the Winton families genaology as soon as possible!! fyi... I.S.W. 1976 ;)

For those of us who are watching the "WHITE QUEEN" the Edward IV King referenced a meterological phenomena that came during one of his battles for supremacy...the "3 suns in Heaven" event that was obviously recorded for all posterity in the history of this time....has it's explaination in the form of ICE crystals that form in the Atmosphere when the sun is low on the Horizon, at 22 1/2 degrees on either side of the son the refracted light creates 1/2 of a solar image...hense 3 suns. So the light is refracted or split into 2 equal images of the Sun on either side...because Ice crystals do the optic work of splitting the light....Sun Pillars occur when there are layers of ice crystals above the Sun and the same phenomena is recorded at differnt levels appearing as pilars of light on both side of the SUN.....just fyi...The detail in the program is wonderful to behold, and now we can understand why they were in awe!!! DCR 1948

William The Conqueror, King Of England is my 25th great grandfather in my closest line of descent, and the furthest line I believe makes him my 28th great grandfather as well. He was one of the most important figures in world history for sure.

The Relationship Story of Ethelralda Maulte/and Esther Harrington appears to be the story that my Father Samuel G. Rice of Neleigh, Nebraska 1887 was so enchanted with that he passed it along to me in 1979 as the baisis of a FAMILY MYTH. The story as he understood it was correct up to a point....We do trace to the Harrington Line via the Rice to Dolliver to Sweets to John Harrington married to Ethelralda....However, as history has declaired the Daughter John Harrington Had with Ethelralda was an only child and died before the age of reproduction. So the Blood kinship of Henry VIII died with her.
The power of the myth is still evident when discussing such issues with famiy.
Another grandson of Henry VIII is the prominent figure Joseph Smith Jr founder of the MORMON religious movement. His first Plural Wife was Mary Rice, but she was first married to an EDMUND RICE 1594 great grandson, also named Joseph I believe....anyway, the mere mention of Henry Tudor in any context is frought with converstional danger as my step brother quickly made plain. The completed DNA test shows an exact match for John Rice 1624 with the ancestoral link identified in Northern France.....The Perrott Line is from France so that appears to be confirmed by the test, and Katherine Perrott married John Rice II of Rickston who is the grandfather of Perrott ap Rice 1600.....The alleged father of my confirmed John RICE 1624 of East Anglia.
The Jane Grey-Wilkerson figure, daughter of Jane Tudor Grey Daughter of Tacinda Tudor has a marriage or blood relationship to the Cromwell line and they show up in the family history of the Harrington's.....so Two myths seem to have merged and the blood line may yet contain some vestage of the Valois/Tudor relationship of Owen and Katherine....But that is still an open question.....FYI Dale C. Rice 1948

Direct line to William the Conqueror, in several ways.

What's interesting about William the conqueror , is he was only married to one woman. Wasn't known to fool around on her. Had 13 children with her and was very family orinented . yet when he went to war he struck terror into the hearts of his emenies.

Judith, You are right about the conflicting values of Wm. the Conquorer...How does a family man devoted to one woman excite such terrible tales of his battles....I really don't know anything about him other than as a footnote to historical comments about England....Guess it's time I look since the DNA test shows the Family came from Northern France. It is coincidental that we four males were devoted to one woman only, and were never known to have been involved with other females during our marriages....As the Wolf devotes their entire life to one partner, so did William. DCR 1948

PS: Judith: My niece has deep Cookston data that she developed back before the internet made it so nice to do research....but the family had no roots back to Main, so I don't know if that's exclusionary for a possible connection....I did see some Cookson's in the South. FYI DCR 1948

Dale,
Cookson was in Boston, Mass first. Then re- located to Maine. John Cookson was a well know business man in Boston. He had the liberty, as they put it to sweep chimmerys and he was one of the few business men who hired free negros. he was a gun smith. His son John , webt to Harvard. it was noted that he took his lunch on the common.I am guessing it was a common in Cambrige not the Common in Boston, but I don't know.
Now as far as William the Conqueror goes. I have a lot of info on him. Do you know he died in a freck accident ,while off at battle. He fell on the pumple of his saddle and he was so heavy., he was injured so servially ,that he died. No one even cared and were going to leave his body behind but I beleive it was his son, who did bring him bacl. By the time they got him back his body so bloated with gas abd infection , that during the funerial, he basicly exploted, foul smelling suff all over everyone. Not a very nice ending for a King! He loved his family , even crying when one child died. He had mood swings, a bad temper, and was known to threaten a city will total iniliation when they called him The Bastard( he was a Bastard child of his father)He had a lot of captives and he put them all to death ,right infront of the wall of said city. It was so horrible ,that they surrendered ,without a fight.

Judith, that is just amazing information....I thank you....Will spend some time online looking him up....It seems i've been focused on finding the recent links, IE 1400 and later that I never gave much thought to him as a possible connection....I-1 is not considered much of a likely connection according to others...but the description of Mood Swings and his devotion to family is right out of my Family Play Book....FYI Bessie Blount is a direct ancestor to Mary Eastman who married John Rice's son in Dedham Ma. Meaning the Blounts, and De Croft's have some genetic input to his son Samuel Rice and other's ofcourse....just fyi. The evidence keeps mounting here at GENI for a very direct line to all this via Perrott ap Rice 1600 the man my Father said was John Rice 1624 blood father....We shall see....DCR Kind Regards

Justin, I got thaqt info from several places including Collection edition of U S News , a worldreport. Untold tales of thr Great Conquerors.. Inside it is titled heroes and Villains.. It includes sections onAlexander the Great. Julius caesar,Attila the Hun, Charlemagne,The Vikings, William the Conqueror,Genghis Khan,Hernando Cortes,Mehmet 11( he is the only one I had never heard of,Napoleon Bonaparte,and Adolf Hitler.This magazie came out Jan. 3, 2006.As well as info, it has maps,and pictures epliting certain events. Very interrsting.

They sy William's great grand son,Henry 2nd King of England, who most of us know was not so family oriented had a bad temper too.They were all redheads , too, i beleive.

Sorry that answer was to Dale not Justin, don''t know where I go tJustin from.

Dale, by the wway my grandmother's family name is Cookson not Cookston but it could be a variation of spelling and that may be why I can't get back in England or Scotland.Also someone else tried to make it a Couchman from Pa. They had this person in Pa. before the Pylgrams landed . That was imposible. I love it when they say Cape Cod, Maine , no such animal, that i know of and they have the person born in said plce before any White person arrived in the area. It's Cap Cod , Mass. and for awhile Maine or at least part of itwas part of Mass., but Cap Cod is on the south shore of Mass. , down towards R.I. nowhere neare Maine, Now there's two Plymouth's. One down towards the Cape, the famious one and their is one in Maine, some of my family lived in both places. there are Plymouths other places too but much later.

My Mother's Family was seated at Buccleaux and most likely were part of the Norman Conquest: Name = Chalfant, and they were part of English History before the Tudor's. The Perrott family is clearly a Norman Name and since the test came back with N. France as the likely source of the I-1 Haplogroup and we show 32% Scandanavian Bloodline as well, Im just supposing they were very early settlers, since I also have O+ Blood, which is the Universal or Oldest Blood group on the Planet, we can donate to all others but we can only receive O+ . Wm the Conquorer is likely R1b according to the conversation we had over the Summer....So I guess that means we predate the R1b incursion, but I can't say that for certain. It would be nice if GENI would now include John Rice 1624 in the sequence of Blood Relatives. He appears only in my personal family line, and not in the general merged files....Do I need to submit something from the test or just give Kris Stewart the Kit Number from the Family DNA test? Just wondering...DCR 1948

O negative is the universal donor.

Type O negative is the rarest blood type? Ain't it?

Congrats on the progress Mr. Rice! I'm a loyal fan!! ;)

Hey Ian! You are right about O- I googled the bloodgroups and out of 100 38 will be O+ and only 8 will be O-. Both O groups are sought after, and aparantly surfaced early on in Human evolution....I just reviewd Justin's post on Wm. The Conquorer which had the presumed DNA listed on the first 37 sites for Y.....Interesting that John Rice 1624 and therefore Perrott ap Rice 1600 have shorter segment lengths than the most common Welsh ancestor from the Non royal Tudor lines....That being Wm. Owen Tudor. I just compared my 25 markers to the presumed Wm. the Conquorer's Y markers and all but 4 of the markers on my test are shorter.....Now, I did not identify myself at all with Wm. the Conquorer yet the test confirmed the family Originated in Northern France, NORMANDY? and further the family has the 32% make up of Scandanavian Blood within the markers....Now put that together with 1/2 names listed in the Article as Norman that appear in the bloodlines of my 5th and 6th great grandfather's daughters marriages and we start to see that something unusual is going on with the NOBODY Puritan boy who marries Ann Hackley in Sept. 1649. His children are sought out by the Eastmans, Dollivers, and others who trace back to the Nevils, De Croft, Mortimer family's of England. Just saying that's a lot of BlueBlooded SMoke for one family to be producing and yet the Aural History of my Father says we do indeed trace to a line of persons who prove to be ANCIENT by any standard you care to measure. The family most recently traces to a direct blood connection to Bessie Blount of Henry Tudor fame....she bore Henry Fitzroy who died young....again through the connection of Eastman and DeCrofts fyi. DCR 1948

I think I am O+ as well I have always thought O+ is the most common, but O- is the rarest and maybe universal. This is why O- is so sought after? Good to see ya made it back home skipper. :)

Here's a real Kick in the HEAD!!! Until I went back to review the R1b1 data on Wm. the Conquorer, I had no idea until today that our 37 marker test for me and the reconstructed DNA markers for Wm. T. C. are so similar....the 9
of 37 markers are an exact match, 14 markers of mine are one segment shorter, and 7 are 2 segments shorter, one Y site is -3 shorter....would that mean my DNA would be considered to be older because of shorter segments? Justin, I think you responded to a similar question in the past but back then we had not established any family links....Now I show that half the famlies listed in the Study you sited back in June are also in my ancestory as born out by the intermarriages of the Easmans, Dollivers, Herberts, DeCrofts and Grey Famlies as well as Tacinda Tudor's link to the MERCER Family. I can put them up if anyone is interested. DCR 1948

people can carry the 0 neg recessive gene
-and, actually be 0+ blood type

for example, my mum is RH NEG O
and,my dad is 0 POSITIVE
-IF, my dad did NOT have THE O POSITIVE
+ THE RH NEG O RECESSIVE GENE
I would have turned out O positive
and, NOT rh neg o
you get ONE factor from your mother
and, you get one factor from your dad
so; + / - or Recessive Gene for -
and, then the blood type

Sorry; should have said "+" aka Positive
trumps " - " aka negative in the selection of your blood type
~unless the "o" positive parent has the recessive gene for 'NEG'

Dale: Y-DNA markers mutate randomly (it's a coin flip algorithm - heads up, tails down), so you can't tell very much by that. The rate of mutation also matters - he's what, 30-32 generations back? That's relatively recent - estimating ~1 mutation per 5 generations, which is rather high, you shouldn't see more than 5-7 markers different if you really are a direct male-line descendant. (Collateral relatives might see some more differences, as their line may have split off earlier.)

The question of what haplogroup the Conqueror belonged to is still not settled - while the odds favor an R1b type, with some variant of I1 as a not-close runner-up, there's always the possibility of a joker in the deck. (No one expected Louis XVI to be G2a, but a Y-DNA test on a surviving blood sample - long story - showed exactly that result.)

William's direct legitimate line was broken when William the Atheling drowned in the English Channel in 1120. That left Matilda as the last heir standing - and led to a lot of trouble.

All the Plantagenets spring from Matilda's husband Geoffrey of Anjou (who was *not* a male-line relative lf the Conqueror) - and I don't know if anyone has done a serious DNA study on them yet. (The best shot, so far, is ongoing genetic studies on Richard III. His mtDNA has been identified but y-DNA continues to elude analysis.)

As for illegitimate descendants - William didn't play the field, but his younger son, Henry I Beauclerc, was a different story. In fact, Henry chased around *so* much that it's hard to sort out just *who* his descendants are. (The prince who drowned was his only legitimate son, though.)

William's father, grandfather and great-grandfather were all notorious alley-cats too, which leaves us with the same problem as Henry I.

There have been attempts to apply population analyses, but they haven't been all that conclusive.

Maven, I was thinking that the negative's were anticedent to Wm. The Conquorer, and the only plus mutation changes occured on 5 sites exactly as you described....Shorter meaning earlier arrivals than WTC. Like I said, I don't have a clue about what any of it means in Scientific Terms....I did not think mutations went negative, I thought they all were additions to the origional Y being examined....Thank you for that clairification....Mutations can then be a shortening of the segments on the Y as well as additional segments....is that what you said? DCR 1948

Susan, that was very interesting about the recessive RH being neg but the person still being born Positive....As the Navy Told me, your Blood will be in demand in VietNam....being O+....So I did not have any real handle on the Science behind it.....An aside note: because I had Prenatal memory, prior to birth....I saw and recalled a friend of mine born 2 days after me in the same Clinic Being Rushed off to "Salem, RH neg. Baby, Transfusion" are words that stuck with me all my life....When I walked back into that clinic 36 years later as a newly converted law office, I had full recall of the incident and the sun beating down on my back as an iinfant swadeled in blankets...There are other things I recalled about that day and days that my mother verified before she died age 96...fyi....DCR

FYI, the Rhys ap Thomas 1449 figure traces back to the joint connection to Rhys ap Tweddwr via the Griffeths I think, and then around to Meridith Tudor to Owen Tudor which leads to Tacinda....The line from the Ap Rice to the Mercer/Tudor Connection is not yet confirmed but seems to be in play....is the link to my ancestor Perrott ap Rice 1600 Who's grandmother is Margaret Mercer. There seems to be a giant circle around the Royal Tudors and that's fine by me. John Rice II of Rickson marries Cousin Katherine Perrott of Goggerdan and that is the male line to Sir Rhys....Margaret Mercer is the the Connection to Tacinda Tudor....via Jane Wilkerson and that puts Thomas ap Rice and Margaret Mercer together as the Mother of Perrott ap Rice and grandparents of John Rice 1624 my proved direct ANCESTOR here in Ma. DCR 1948