William the Conqueror, King of England - Hunting William the Conqueror's DNA

Mary should be daughter of Samuel Rice ca 1740....or sister leading to the many Plantagent's preceeding the Dollivers, and or EASTMAN lines....I don't know. DCR 1948

Found a rice in Weeks lines , which then got me involved with Hutchins lines of friends genealogy he gave me just before he died., which then got me confused. of course working in semi darkness doesn't help. Came home to note on screen saying we had a leak in the roof and water was coming throug n the celling light and down over the door. Had to call landlord. She had to call cell phone co. to come get up on roof, since she rented out roof for three towers. Anyway someone up there sometime time damaged the roof causing all this rain we have been having to leak into my d house. Wonderful! Can't use the light for 24 hours. Temp fix. Be back Monday or tuesday. Isn't that just great.

Ah yes, Ms. Loubris....the calculations of Landlords renting out room space for cell towers, does not include the downside of such decisions....sorry to hear of the trials by Rain...hope it's all fix to satisfaction soon....DCR 1948

My landlord like most of them is all about money. She never has enough.Complains that she needs money.Those cell towers fetch a nice amount of money per tower and she has three of them. She says she thinks the communist way of life is better then the country she and late husband has made a fortune off of and she think she can tell her tenants they can't get pregnant, I don't know what it's like in Armenia , where she comes from or Lebanon where her late husband comes from but we don't do things that way here. But back to family tree . Much more pleasant to talk about,

Well, when it comes to money, the real person inside comes right out in public and gives themselves away....Sorry your roof is leaking anyway...Yes lets do talk of family...I am the only Male in the family to be immersed in the search for the complete understanding of the Laundress and her role in the missing Prince idea passed down to me by my father....Justin has been very helpful in steering me clear of the rocks in the RICE's famlies that populate the early US 1640's....So ever onward....Happily mys two elder sisters are very pleased with my research....the rest don't get it!!!! LOL one of these days, they will. DCR

I am the only one left except my son in my entire direct line.I have cousin who ar 1st cousin via my uncle george's line. I have a few 2nd cousin's left via my Great Aunt bessie's ( my grandfather's sister's) line.This my mother's side. my father's side/ i was an only child. Do have some cousin from the Loubris side but they don't know any more then i do.So here I am , with all this info dropped onto me as people began to drop off.Some of it got published in a book about a local area, as my Greatgrand parents were the caretakers there and I am the only one with pictures Lot's pictures . Some were my grandparents and some were my Great Aunt Bessie's( Fay gave me her whole album) and some from my great Aunt Yac( Octavia) cousin Doris gave me pictures from Tav's album just before Doris died at age 90.it's all farm pictures, people , farm equipment , the house and barn, animals, horses, dogs , cats and a few cows.really interesting. plus i have some of my Great uncle Ernie's letters from WW1 and his military info , including metals. Also have letters from my mother's brother George during his time working his way across country during the depression. Phil road the rails across country and work but never wrote. I have all Phil's WW2 pictures and info and some of George's/. This is all the Parker side, I have all kinds of stuff, probate ete that I have amassed over the years. I have become the family historian.I didn't plan it that way ! it just happened.Loubris is harder. i do have some pictures and records but not a lot.

Oh I forgot I also have another Parker cousin in town who wrote a book on her side of Parker's and Penny lines. I lived in the more residental section of town, whereas she lived on a farm, when we still had farms in town.We never met until she did her book.At that point we were living around the cornor from each on on old Iron Works Land that back in the late 1600's and early 1700's belonged to the family. it was 600 acres back them. Much smaller now. Her side is the one that got most of the land in the end and sold it off. Three brothers had the land but two died.Mine sold his share to her family back in the early 1800's and moved to North Saugus and bought a farm, the house and some land is still there but someone else now owns it but my mother grew up there.

Justin: could you check my new thread on Etheralda Harrington? I started a new thread there....Her mother was a Laundress; and I may have confused Perrott with this laundress as her father was a Taylor in London whom my father was obscessed with and even took up Tayloring himself...fyi...Thanks DCR

Dale was this person who wasa taylor in London named Rice or was he named Taylor and what year was this?

The Taylor''s name was john Malte will prove Sept 10, 1546 leaving" to my bastard daughter Ethelralda Malte/Harrington " Her mother is left nothing and her name was Joane Dingley/ Malte-Dobbins...she had nothing to do with Ethelralda and Hester was the only Child by this first marriage....There is some property in Pembrokshire that I referenced with John Herrington, perhaps she married a cousin by the same name? I couldn't tell....DCR 1948

Dale, I don't find a message thread about Awdrey Harington. I know only a little about her. I'm surprised to see her as a daughter of Henry VIII, King of England on Geni. There's no proof, just a rumor. If it were me, I'd link her as a daughter of John Malte, then put a link to Henry VIII in the About.

However, if there is one of the wild rumors that might be true, this one is a good candidate. She received a grant of lands and married into the gentry despite the fact that her "father" was a tailor and her mother was a laundress.

But she had no issue (despite what Geni says) and there has been some confusion about which John Harrington she married:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/e...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/e...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/e...

Fernwalt, located in Shrivingham: Pembrokshire is a Manor Home which Hester Herington, the only known daughter of John H. and Ethelralda Malte/Herrington in 1568, is a reference to the Bastard child of the Kngs Taylor in London that i could find....The problem with 1568 is that it's well after John Harrington is dead....My conclusion was the John Herington must be a brother/son /nephew of her Father that was left to Hester and he together. That is on a site called History of Pembokshire 1500-1580. There are a number of Herrington's in the Rice Ancestory and as I say they appear in communion with the Phillips....
FYI: The Thomas Perrott line that my Perrott is connected to via John Rice II and Katherine were DEVOUT Puritans, it seems they were hunters of the EXTREMISTS Recousants in Pembrokeshire, Wales 1600 to 1640 so the social picture of Perrott and MS. TAMZIN Rice is a little more clear....Thanks to Maven here on geni....DCR 1948

Dale, I saw somewhere else that you were asking about recusants. It's a category that included anyone who refused to conform to the state church. Originally just Catholics, but later also Puritans and other dissenters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recusancy

Well, I posted that because two months ago we had quite a discussion if you recall that Perroot ap Rice was not likely to be a Puritan.....But Thomas Perrott was an Uncle and ancestor to Katherine Perrott and John Rice Perrott's grand parents....and was in involved in Chasing down RECUSANTS....so the Puritan connection with TAMZIN becomes more real and more likely....I have a call into the STANSTEAD Church of St. John to see if I can get the photocopy of the Birth/Baptismal Record for John RICE 1624 listing TAMZIN or Thomasine Frost as mother....if not Im dead in the water to prove genetic relationship unless the Pollards/ Polands come through with DNA that matches mine and John Rice 1624. I check to see if any progress yet on a haplogroup, nothing so far....I promise to post. DCR 1948

I'm in the minority apparently. I think it's very plausible that Perrot Rice's family was Puritan. Wales and southwestern England were hotbeds for it. There's a very plausible suggestion that John Rice of Dedham probably came from Essex, but Wales wouldn't surprise me a bit.

For what it's worth I followed up on your point about East Anglican Dissident ministries in Wales & see what you mean.

I'm not quite seeing it for John Rice b 1624 of Dedham "in particular" for specific reasons:

- he's an early arriver. If he came about 1644 and roamed about some before settling in Dedham, that's still putting him ahead of most - and of course he could have been much earlier
- his wife and children's spouses have no hint of Welsh
- the town of Dedham has no hint of Welsh

In my own lines I see "possibly Wales" and some of the neighboring counties in NH, Maine & CT more. Not though very much in Norfolk & Middlesex counties.

I can agree about the idiosyncratic nature of Dedham, but when I hear Welsh in Colonial Massachusetts, I always think of the search for the elusive parents of Henry Luce.

He was a Puritan. No hint anywhere that he was Welsh. Nothing Welsh about his wives or children. Nothing Welsh about Martha's Vineyard. Yet, a 3rd great grandson recorded a tradition that Henry was raised in Wales, the son of an otherwise unknown Israel Luce. I've done quite a bit of research on this line. Many years ago I wrote an article showing the inaccuracies in Charles Banks' account and suggesting that Henry might have been the Henry Lewes indentured in Chepstow in 1659. One of these days I'll finalize and publish the article.

The Rice's were RABID anti-catholic, and had the bad manners of their beliefs to sell pamphlets about the POPE....I saw the Book once back in the 1960's about the Roman Church...pretty large with a purple cover, that my ancestor's used to sell out on the Plains of Nebraska....So the Puritan streak of the family is well doccumented according to the info. I have seen....Now, I still don't know how Perrott gets to TAMZIN, but guess is this was not a consentual event....But the fact is that child was left behind when Edmund and THomasine emigrated 1638 when the boy was only 14, and Perrott made it a point to get him back to his people in early years of 1642. Because there is doccumentation of Perrot/John Rice having land dealings with his cousin, in the Barbado's in the 1650's he's able to tool around by ship....thus the EDMUND RICE brother who later on in the family is in the SLAVE business may have come across with PERROTT and John Rice 1624 when they returned him to Tamzin...which we know he was not allowed into SUDBURY but did go on to prove himself in Dedham....My father was clear about returning the boy....it took me awhile to recall that part and we know that ERA shows there are two John Rice's in DEDHAM....I have asked them directly if both of them or just one of them Married in DEDHAM....will advise when they answer...DCR 1948

PS. There is a tantalizing connection between a member of a Luce family in London and the Gardiners, along with a tie-in to Shakespeare's Merry Wives of Windsor. Look for a project coming soon ;)

Dale I don't understand your thinking.

Your Henry VIII laundress has been found, she was Joane Dobson

PS the only reason I even knew about this was because she was confused with Richard Rich's wife.

Justin, Welsh on the Vineyard makes total sense, they were mariners. There is no ocean, not even a lively river, in Dedham.

Geography rules ....

Yes, Ms. Erica......I see the Joan Dobson John Malte connection to Ethelralda....now the question I have is how does the daughter Esther or Hester Harrington connect to the RICE's.....The only one I know about is my ancestor Perrott and his son John Rice 1624 born to TAMZIN....We all agree that my ancestory leads to John Rice who's son Samuel of Con. is I1 and I will likely will match...So the innerworkings of the Perrott Clan is such there may be someone who is my Father's story teller.....He's very connected to Ethelralda and John Malte....figure as I said DAD made his own very fine Wool Coat that he was burried in as an honorium to John Malte....I simply didn't know the story untill two days ago that the Laundress was Joane Dingly, Malte, Dobson..... : - ) DCR 1948

The Welsh are mariners??

Dale there were 3 John Rice's recorded in Dedham Vital Records, as noted on their Geni profiles - John Rice b 1624, his 1st son John died young, and

John Rice

The ERA as of a few years ago had no found a male line descendant for Y DNA studies.

Justin - mine seem to be

Dale

Would it be possible to not write "John Rice's mother was Tamzin (Frost) Rice." ?? It is entirely speculative on your part, and you may not realize this, but it's kind of insulting to her memory, I just wince every time i read it and I'm not of her line - what about those who are? Do you see what I mean?

As Justin pointed out, Hester Harrington, daughter of Ethelreda Malte & John Harrington may not even have existed, much less had children. So you have a huge proof project ahead of you right there.

Erica, we need to be cautious. As we say, geography is everything but that doesn't mean someone born near the sea would choose it again, or that someone born inland wouldn't choose the sea.

Many of the Welsh or "hill folk" and in the 1800s in America many Welsh and Welsh immigrants were coal miners because of it.

In order to say that John Rice, of Dedham was not from the family of Perrot Rice we need something more than the thought that Henry Luce might have settled on Martha's Vineyard because his unknown origin might have been near the sea.

About Ethelreda Malte, the law comes to our rescue. Her widower held by curtesy, which at that time means that they had at least one child who lived to take a breath. But on John Harrington's death the manor went elsewhere. Therefore we know that Ethelreda had no issue to inherit it. Whoever they might have been, all of Ethelreda's descendants had died out by the time John Harrington died.

John Rice 1600 Captain in the KIngs Army of Cavaliers: Brother to Perrott ap Rice 1600: John Rice 1624 born to Tamzin Rice a Big row in the Rice Family: John Rice Son of Perrott Rice and Margaret littleton Born 1633-35. My contention is that we have plenty of John Rice's to go around....The 3 John Rices of Dedham are all clearly related to My John Rice 1624 unless my DNA is too far afield and we don't expect that. The people of the New World were brave adventurers and it's nonsense to think they would be put off because the land isn't the same as at home....
I can refer to Tamzine Rice as the logical person my father's testimony supports....The DNA should be of some use later....to establish the Maternal links as well as Paternal links....Im aware the X Mt. DNA cant be used to say Thomasine Frost is TAMZIN....but considering the proximity you would be remiss to include her as the probable mother of John Rice 1624 by your own assertion he would need a connection to enter the town which he clearly did have to Mary a Dedham Born Puritan girl like Anne Hackley...fyi ERA shows no info. on Anne Hackley....I asked and they answered. DCR 1948

Hester Harrington is not the Daughter of Ethelralda? Which Hester was born to Ethelralda? You say she didn't survive....Geni said she did.????DCR