Guntram "der Reiche", Comte de Sundgau - Ortscheid, Orscheid, Orschitt, Orscheyd, von Arscheid, von Arscheyt, von Arschott, von Brabant-Arschot, von Aarschot

Guntram "der Reiche", Comte de Sundgau is my 34th great grandfather. You can peruse my Genealogy which has been officially verified HRH Prince Nicholas de Vere. I'm not sure why, whoever edited his (Guntram) geni page, they could not even mention the family titled names. Especially, when it comes to Genealogy, it is imperative, 'All' information be provided.

Who do you think 'de Sandgou' roots from genealogically... 'von Aarschot' of which goes back beyond ancient 'Troy' being direct ancestors and descendants of the Trojan Kings and progenitors of the Frankish Kings and the Merovingian bloodline.

The Habsburg claim to relation is weak at best and certainly, they know, if there were von Aarshot's (who are von Arscheid, Orscheid, Arscheyt, Orscheyd and van Aerschot) who trace lineage, they would have to kneel for grace.

Please Help me with this research because what I'v e already found, means the this family is alive and well, thriving in the world today.

After much searching, I found a small village called 'Orscheid' (also formally 'Orscheidt'); a district of Aegidienberg, a city district of Bad Honnef in the North Rhine-Westphalian Rhein-Sieg-Kreis, not far from Bonn and Cologne.

Mentioned and documented in the years 1244 and 1256 under the name 'Arscheid' by the year 1673 there were twelve taxable inhabitants. Once I discovered the name change, I found Sir Heinrich von Arscheid husband of Heilwig von Schidderich. Their daughter, Mechtild von Arscheid.

and soon after, I found multiple Patent Orders for Abbot (Johan I and Johan II); with the surname of Orscheid/Arscheid (Arscheyt and Arschot) issued from the House of Hesse.

LINK TO THESE DOCUMENTS (can be purchased to view online): http://www.archive.nrw.de/LAV_NRW/jsp/findbuch.jsp;jsessionid=47188...

These names are associated with and is the same family, of which, the natural progression tracing back to it's earliest rendering would be:

Ortscheid, von-Arscheid, von-Arscheyt, von Arschott, von Aarschot

Etymology (according to legend)

The Roman army had conquered the the Hageland (the Country of hedges) in the year 54 BC. Large plains stretched out in front of them: Taxandria, with in the middle the river Demer. High on the hill stood Caesar. His attention was caught by an eagle. Julius Caesar grabbed his bow, aimed, and shot. They heard a sharp cry and the eagle fell down to earth. Caesar's nephew, Aurelianus, hurried himself into the valley and picked up the dead eagle. His beak had been cut off by the arrow. Aurealianus named the place where the eagle had fallen "Bekaf" (Beak-off). He carried the eagle to Caesar and praised him with his beautiful shot. Caesar, flattered by the words of his nephew, rewarded him by having constructed a fortress: the "Aurelianustoren" (Tower of Aurelianus), which name still lives on as "Orleanstoren". Proudly he gave the place where he shot the eagle "Arendschot" (Eagle shot). Today we call this place Aarschot:

Aarschot (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈaːr.sçɔt]) is a city and municipality in the province of Flemish Brabant, in Flanders, one of the three regions of Belgium. The municipality comprises the city of Aarschot proper and the towns of Gelrode, Langdorp and Rillaar.

The root of the name Ortscheid is actually a Titled Patent for 'Place' name, hence, the use of the suffix/prefix 'von, van and de' that frequents the titles depending on where you find the family.
Below, are some examples from history, of our Noble and Royal names:

Ortscheid, von Orscheid, von Arscheid, von Arscheyt, von Arschott, von Brabant-Arschot, von Aarschot

@Guntram"der Reiche",Comte de Sundgau is my 30th grt grandfather my linage is Judy Rice,Arthur Rice my father,Israel Tekarihoken Rice,his father,Pierre Atawenrate Rice his father,Ignace Awennaietha Deer Rice his father,Marie Madeleine Kiatawinon Deer Rice his mother,Thomas aka Atonwa Aronhiowonen his father,Silas Rice his father,Edmund Rice his father,Samuel Rice his father,Thomasine Rice (Frost)his mother,Thomasine Frost(Belgrave)her mother,Joanna Belgrave her mother,Catherine/Johanna Strutt her mother, Sir John Scottt High Sheriff of Kent her father, Sybilla Scott Heiress of the Barony of Bircholt her mother,Sir John Lewknor of Goring her father Judy Rice

Hi Mary,

We need to be very cautious when approaching genealogies of Europe's royal families.

It might not be immediately obvious but Prince Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg is one of the great impostors of our time. He started life as plain Tom Weir and ended it as the self-described heir of the Ancient Dragon Lords and Head of the Royal Assembly of Elven Tribes.

For sheer brazenness his fantasies far exceed those of Michael Baigent for the Merovingian descent from Jesus, those of Michael Fosse to be Prince Michael of Albany and heir of the Stuarts, and those of Laurence Gardner for royal descents from space aliens.

It's all pseudo-history, for entertainment purposes only. No scholar anywhere supports his claims -- which is saying quite a bit in a world that abounds with starving academics who want to find something sensational to support their bids for tenure.

It is reasonably certain that Guntram the Rich was the ancestor of the Habsburgs.

After they were elevated to the Imperial throne in 1273, the Habsburgs claimed to be descended from the family of Julius Caesar through the Italian Pierleoni and Colonna families.

Unfortunately, the link they claimed went through a man who turned out of be a converted Jew. So, the Habsburgs changed the official story and claimed instead to be descended from the Merovingians.

Then, in the 16th century the Abbey of Muri, which was the original burial place of the Habsburgs discovered an 11th century manuscript that showed the Habsburgs were actually descended from a 10th century count, Guntram the Rich.

Most modern historians believe Guntram the RIch was the same person as the Count Guntram who rebelled against the emperor Otto the Great in 952. That Guntram held lands on both sides of the Upper Rhine. As a result of his rebellion he lost his lands in Alsace, but apparently kept his lands in what is now Switzerland. His descendants in Switzerland apparently re-grouped, built the Habsburg castle, and re-ascended the political heights.

There is some doubt, however. A minority of modern historians think the two Guntrams might have been different -- or least the evidence they were the same is not quite strong enough.

The rebellious Guntram was a member of the great Etichonid dynasty, descended from Duke Eticho (7th century). It was once thought that Eticho was a descendant of the great Gallo-Roman Ferreolus family, closely related to the Merovingians. Now, it's known that his grandfather was a Burgundian duke, from a very different family.

There is no connection between "Sundgau" and "Sandgou". Sundgau is the southern half of Alsace --sund = southern, gau = region. The northern half of Alsace, predictably, is Nordgau, the northern region.

Sandgou is Tom Weir's personal theory to create a plausible bridge between the region of Sundgau and the Sangraal -- the Holy Grail.

Your story about Aarschot is just one of those quaint medieval stories. This one is from Die Alder Excellenste Cronyke van Brabant, 1498. If anyone has an older citation I'd love to hear about it.

There is certainly a noble family van Aarschot. They have an illustrious ancestry. Their ancestor married a step-daughter of one of the Etichonid dukes of Lorraine, so it all ties together.

If you are interested in the van Aarschot family, let's move this discussion over there.

Hello Justin,

Having known Prince Nicholas de Vere, personally, I am witness of his credentials and 'Sovereignty. They were verified for me by the local law enforcement (where I currently have contract work) and the FBI via INTERPOL from the EU and UK government. And as stated in my return PM to you, he (the late Prince Nicholas de Vere) was no charlatan.

If he was fake, how did he gain the power to grant diplomatic title and immunity to anyone he deemed necessary?

Why would INTERPOL, the EU and the UK government verify his credentials to the FBI on my behalf?

I guess they're all charlatan's not excluding the kind State Troopers!

His genealogy was validated by the UK government, so, I'm not sure why they would issue his credentials with that identity and title in mind, do you?

We should all remember the academic history of the Catholic Inquisition(s) and that the Inquisition is still in affect... Who controls the flow of information and academia? The Catholic church.

For sheer brazenness it's all fantasy... Along with the 9mil plus bodies entombed beneath the Vatican, 6mil of which were the victims of the first Inquisition alone, the bodies of the Desposyni.

Micheal Le Fosse, even though fraudulent, would have made a great King of Scotland, none-the-less. As for, Laurence Gardner, he stole the material for 'Genesis of Grail Kings' and 'Realm of the Ring Lords' from Prince Nicholas de Vere. To clarify, Nick never endorsed Zachariah Sitchin's claim that the Anunnaki were 'space aliens'. On the contrary, he usually referred to them as an advanced or superior species on earth, long before the advent of mankind... How could anyone know for sure?

Certainly, the Talmud, the Holy Quran and the Holy Bible are all patriarchal works fantasy, are they not? Truth doesn't care about what you think, believe or feel.

You're right Justin, it's all psuedo-history, for entertainment purposes- Including popular history and 'Academic' truth which is, solely, based on the theoretical and hypothetical opinions and ideas that are decided and measured by the rules and methods set within the agreed curriculum of a particular learning institution or fraternity. Which is an over inflated egotistical way of describing the accepted documented 'Trivia'.

I mean, where were you, Justin, when God hung the stars?

Mary,

I don't think Geni is the right place for you. As you said in your private message to me a few minutes ago, you do not accept academic findings in genealogical research. Instead, you believe it is all a conspiracy of "Catholic church and Jewish- Khazar 'Zionist' propagandists."

You will find that Geni has a strong academic orientation. I think you would be happier elsewhere.

As for Genealogy and the family tree of Royal descent, anyone with genealogy knows, if your related to one Royal line, your related to them all.. My personal genealogy can attest to that.

And as for the 'van Aerschot'- which is 'von Aarschot', is 'von Arscheid', is 'von Arscheyt', is 'Orscheyd', is Orscheid, they are all the same family.

To say Orscheid is different from Arscheid is only a semantic letter play. when in truth a name, historically speaking, encountered many alterations through time and dialects.

An 'O' in 'Orscheid' is simply the French rendering of the German name with 'A' in 'Arscheid'.

Abbot of Werden Abbey Johann II von Arscheid is listed with alternate name variations depending on dialect as Arscheyt and Arschott in the Patent issued from the House of Hesse.

And in a Genealogical list, 'von Arschied' can also be rendered (depending on dialect, in this case a French dialect), as 'Orschitt' which is again a variation of the name 'Orscheid'.

Using logical deduction of the facts available it would mean they are all the same name.

Justin, 'PM' (if yo're not aware) means 'personal message'. Instead of exploiting a portion of my statement, why not post the whole conversation?

And for your information, I have many Jewish ancestors. Academically and genetically speaking Khazar's are not Jews.

It is academically humorous that you cannot address the original issue being presented but would rather slander a personal friend and family member based on your mis-informed opinion and simply false assumptions of his character and credentials. While, persisting in avoiding any logical thought, educated opinion or advice regarding the original issue presented. All while, unable to validate any stance on the subject, you continue to distort the topic with a thesis against Nicholas Thomas Logun Wier, whom you obviously were never acquainted. Then, when after my re-address to your statements, you resort to personally damage my credibility and character, while you still have not contributed to the subject matter presented... Is this what you mean by 'Strong Academic Orientation'?

Is this how you treat all women? Attempting to intimidate me will not work and you haven't proven that you have any knowledge. rather you've proven that you do not know anything nor do you have any knowledge to contribute to my issue. You even have the audacity to tell me Geni is not a place for me? What does NIck have to to do with the original question you refuse and cannot answer?

You've proven to be a intellectual bully devoid of any ability to think or research for himself.

Personally, I think you are jealous of Nick and you are jealous of me because of my confidence in my Genealogy.

I don't have time for any personal drama regarding the 'New Renaissance Gang'.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Mary, I have addressed the points your raised in the fields where I have experience -- the fake de Vere genealogies, Habsburg origins, the connection to Sundgau, and the Aarschot legend about Julius Caesar. I invite you to present the proofs you have rather than resorting to an ad hominem attack.

Justin,

Again you slander Nick!

Then you imply it's a 'fallacy'?

If he is a fake, why are you so threatened by him that you cannot stop talking about him?

Please present proof that proves Nicholas de Vere 's genealogy is a fake or please quit slandering my personal friend and family,

If he's in my genealogy and Queen Elizabth II's genealogy, he can't be 'Fake'.

To correct you, you haven't addressed the issues I have presented rather you deleted them with out any thought or consideration while you continue to avoid addressing it like the plague.

I understand, if linguistics are not your strong suit but please respond to the issue presented and cease your attack on my family.

You are are lying about Nicholas de Vere and I don't understand why.

What ever NIck did to you, maybe you should and ponder the word, 'Forgiveness'...

I warn you, Stop harassing me about my family and dear late friend Nicholas de Vere.

The issue is the 'van Aerschot'- which is 'von Aarschot', is 'von Arscheid', is 'von Arscheyt', is 'Orscheyd', is Orscheid, they are all the same family.

To say Orscheid is different from Arscheid is only a semantic letter play. when in truth a name, historically speaking, encountered many alterations through time and dialects.

An 'O' in 'Orscheid' is simply the French rendering of the German name with 'A' in 'Arscheid'.

Abbot of Werden Abbey Johann II von Arscheid is listed with alternate name variations depending on dialect as Arscheyt and Arschott in the Patent issued from the House of Hesse.

And in a Genealogical list, 'von Arschied' can also be rendered (depending on dialect, in this case a French dialect), as 'Orschitt' which is again a variation of the name 'Orscheid'.

Using logical deduction of the facts available it would mean they are all the same name.

Mary, I repeat -- Geni might not the place for you.

I have not deleted anything you have written. I don't have that power. Only Geni can do that.

I am not harassing you. I am responding to your demands for information. You don't agree with my answers but that doesn't make them harassment.

You posted this discussion under Guntram the Rich, so presumably your many point is Guntram. I've responded to everything except your van Aarschot theories. It's not my field. I'm responding to the pieces I know. Someone else can respond about the forms of Aarschot.

You haven't responded to my information about Guntram, the origin of the Habsburgs, or the connection to Sundgau, Nor do you need to respond. If you like the information, take it, use it. If you don't like it, you can argue, ignore it, or save it for further research. Whatever pleases you.

The burden to prove the truth of Nicholas de Vere / Tom Weir's genealogies is on you, the proponent, not on me. Look at the following website, which is very sympathetic to him:

http://www.redicecreations.com/news/2004/12dec/deveredrakenberg.html

It says, in part, "At the age of twelve, Nicholas was magically dedicated to the dragon tradition formally, and at the age of thirteen he first enacted the rite known as “Starfire.” Following this period his mother obtained for him works by Aliester [sic] Crowley, and he studied the principals of the Black Arts in earnest, gaining a considerable degree of competence in ritual magic. At the age of fifteen Nicholas underwent the ancient rite of kingship which, in accordance with archaic Gaelic tradition, bestows the mantle of sovereignty arising from the very Earth itself."

There is much more in this vein spread across the internet.

Most people will read this and be skeptical. You think it's great stuff. So, I would challenge you to present any peer-reviewed work published in an academic journal. Or, any public forum where academic historians have endorsed his research. Or, even a single tenured professor at any university with a reputable history department that has endorsed his work.

I think you will respond, as you have before, that academic history doesn't prove anything because it is controlled by a conspiracy.

So, we are at a standstill. If you will not accept historical method, if you think academic genealogy is beyond the pale, then I repeat -- Geni is probably not the right forum for you.

Geni is a collaborative site. You will find there's a lot of debate about different lines but you will not find broad support for theories about Dragon Lords, Elven Tribes, and global conspiracies. That will make this a frustrating place for you.

The right to Nick’s Sovereignty is evident and verifiable with a bit of due diligence by the seeker and minimal effort by any mundane reader of his work. The ‘Sovereign Grand Duchy of Drakenberg’ is a legal entity, under British Law and recognized by the EU, US and Britain.

Company Number 7236272: The Sovereign Grand Duchy of Drakenberg.

The Sovereign Grand Duchy of Drakenberg: The International Council of Princes (Wallachia 1465), The Imperial and Royal Dragon Court (Anjou 760).

Three sensitive words: International; Princes; Royal have been passed by the Welsh Government Honours and Protocols Office and this was confirmed by Mrs. Elaine Baker of Strategic and Corporate Communications, Ref: qA979472 by letter on 15th August 2012.

The Full Company name is now as follows and is filed by Companies House and the Honours and Protocol Office as such:

The Sovereign Grand Duchy of Drakenberg:

Represented as a Government in Exile by: The International Council of Princes (Wallachia and Transylvania 1465), The Imperial and Royal Dragon Court (Anjou 760 & Hungary 1397), The Council of Seneschals of The Imperial and Royal Dragon Court herein given, The Honourable Companions of the Imperial and Royal Dragon Court herein given, Le Prieuré de Sion (Priory of Zion of France and Abbey of Zion of Jerusalem), The Order of The Poor Knights of Christ and The Temple of Jerusalem under the First Hierarchical Rule: St. Anthony of Egypt and Scotland, and The Rose Croix of Saint Mark of Constantinople, and The Free and Accepted Freemasonry of Saint Mary Magdalene: Spiritual, Ceremonial and Almoner抯Rite. The Knights Templars Military Directorate for Intelligence and Security: Third Continental Army. The Convivienca of Toledo 790, The Bishopric and Guardianship in the Epharc of Britain and Hibernia of the Orthodox Autocephalous Church Of Europe and The Liberal Celtic Rite of The Old Catholic Church of James The Great, First Bishop of Jerusalem and brother of Jesus Christ, of and for HI&RH Prince Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg Prince of Lusignan, Count of Anjou and the House de Vere therein incorporated.

It's a corporation. The many entities that "recognize" its sovereignty are also just other corporations with pretentious names. The key indiciae of real sovereignty are noticeably missing -- recognition by another sovereign nation in the form of an accredited ambassador or envoy, membership or observer status at the UN, etc.

This is a field that the late Col. Robert Gayre of Gayre & Nigg wrote about in his excellent book, _The knightly twilight: A glimpse at the chivalric and nobiliary underworld_ (1973).

Not a single one of these organizations are recognized by the International Commission on Orders of Chivalry. None are recognized by any of Europe's reigning monarchs or received in an official capacity by other royal courts, nor are their titles accepted by legitimate orders of chivalry.

My genealogy was a published work separate from and only presented to Nicholas de Vere to review and match it up with his that is all.

My immediate family worked on our genealogy and actually traveled to locations, grave sites, archival resources in other countries to verify each member in my family tree. Right now, I am working on and adding to my Geni, first my Mother's line and then I will move on to my father's, etc.

FYI- A Sovereign Prince doesn't need a peer review because they a divinely selected by God. That's all the peer review needed.

My father has three Master's degrees and a phd and my Mother has a BA as well... And they certainly don't use their educations as a weapon.

If you remember correctly, you threatened me with a 'Warning' that you had an 'education' in attempt to intimidate me 'intellectually' and that did not work.

Thank you for acknowledging that you do not know anything about the 'Aarschot' seat name and it's derivatives.

That is really all that I wanted to know.

I am here to install my Genealogy as an online resource, I didn't come here to debate who I am, provide a thesis to prove who I am nor do I need to validate Nicholas de Vere because he is in my GENEALOGY and that's not anyone's business but mine.

Yes that it is, a corporation but if you look closely, you will see the part that allows Nick to use certain words, reserved under Welsh Government... And please, even if I had his patents in my possession I could not nor would I have the authority to post Nicholas de Vere's patents because he passed on this year.

"Three sensitive words: International; Princes; Royal have been passed by the Welsh Government Honours and Protocols Office and this was confirmed by Mrs. Elaine Baker of Strategic and Corporate Communications, Ref: qA979472 by letter on 15th August 2012"

Let me translate:

Mrs. Elaine Baker of Strategic Corporate Communications confirmed that the Welsh Government 'Honours' and 'Protocols' Office passed three sensitive words: 'International', 'Princes' and 'Royal'.

Why? Because, it is Illegal within the UK and the EU to use certain words in any capacity without a proper background check to verify Identity, criminal record, genealogy, hereditary patents, legitimate claims to allow a person to officially use a title such as 'Prince' or claim to be 'Royal'... Also he had to verify ownership of every chivalric order listed under the Sovereign Grand Duchy which requires by law int he UK and the EU to possess 'Fons Honourum'. And, incidentally another entity was listed under the Duchy,'The Virginia Company'.

Setting up everything under a corporation wasn't what Nick wanted to do... It was the only vehicle to utilize, so as to present and get a piece of international legislation passed in the EU regarding 'Sovereign Law'. Nick was selfless and he granted all of his royalties from his publisher to go to a home for homeless children in Hungary.

And in regard to your online link to Nicks very old interview.. Is there something wrong with his opinion or religion that you would attempt to defame him?

The sad thing is, you did not know him at all and you've passed judgement on him. So what if he studied the occult what does that matter in the over all scheme of things? At least he wasn't an Atheist.

In your college did they allow the Greek influence of fraternities? Did your school have a curriculum? Then your information was controlled, carefully selected and by definition you were conformed to form of sorcery originating with King Solomon's Scholomancy- there's no conspiracy in the truth.

How can you look upon Nick with such disdain because he wanted to set people free from the economic slavery and despotism we currently live?

Have you really ever read his books?

I lost count of how many people he has healed through his book, 'The Dragon Legacy'... Many people in my immediate and extended family, distant cousins and friends.

It's not what happened, it's what people remembered happened, then the stuff remembered is manipulated and twisted, added and deleted to fit society as needed by those bent on dominance and control... How is that a conspiracy?

That's the reality of human nature and the present situation we currently find ourselves in the 'world'.

Justin,

After reviewing this conversation, I have to ask, are you Freemason?

Mary, you ask whether I've ever read de Vere's books. It might surprise you, but yes. I have. I own a metaphysical bookstore. I'm very familiar with this type of imaginative genealogy. To be fair, I will also say that I agree with you wholeheartedly that imaginative exercises can be very healing for people who are wounded in certain specific ways.

And, if you will re-read my message to you, you will see that I didn't warn you about my education but about my impatience with people who will not accept academic standards for historical research. To my way of thinking you put yourself in that category when you say that Prince Nicholas does need peer review because he was a sovereign prince divinely selected by G-d.

Since many people will not be familiar with Nicholas de Vere, and since the Dragon Court network of websites seems to have mostly disappeared, I offer these links for more information:

A general introduction, by Nicholas de Vere: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_dragon...

A more sensational overview, GlobalElite.com:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_dragon...

And, an internet radio interview with Tracy Twyman, former de Vere associate:
http://www.latalkradio.com/archives/Rene-022713.mp3

I'm not offering any of these as the final word. Tracy's perspective is very interesting, but remember that she is also the author of _Mind-Controlled Sex Slaves and the CIA_, as well as _Antichrist 2012: Will Prince William be King of the World?_. I don't think it will spoil the plots for anyone if I say that both books are hugely entertaining, but almost as far out as the de Vere claims.

I really don't believe that there should be this mixture of fact with fantasy. I am not against people creating the work, just don't want it to make a mockery of the endorsed research of others by corrupting their trees and projects. Better to keep complete separation, I think.

Itś not often that such surreal threads emerge in ANY internet venue. I just want to take a moment and bask in the after-glow.

At first I thought Mary to be a ¨troll¨, yet, when I saw her note:

¨FYI- A Sovereign Prince doesn't need a peer review because they a divinely selected by God. That's all the peer review needed.¨

I applaud your replies to Mary, Justin. With all due respect to Mary, may I recommend she build her family tree in ¨stand-alone¨ mode on her PC, export a GEDCOM file to a writeable CD, then store the CD in a safe deposit box to protect it? Her knowledge is best captured for posterity, and kept safe, in that fashion...and all of us can consult her if we have any questions germane to her subject-matter-expertise.

Warm regards,

J

Hello Jaim Harlow,

Not to continue in this vain but I must reiterate so there aren't any misunderstandings that Nick de Vere has very little to do (outside of common relation) with my Genealogy directly.

I am not going to keep my Geni separate and private because I can substantiate every person in my genealogy. I submitted my Genealogy to Nick de Vere, I never said he gave me the genealogy nor did my work stem from his, it was merely for his perusal.

My family worked on the genealogy over the past 20+ years, published in a family album of which the work being done on my tree stems from not Nicholas de Vere.

We did the Genealogical work the old fashion way- We went to each location, verified the burial and any and all official documentation and patent letters.

The issues presented, really do 'not' have anything to do with Nicholas de Vere and at this point I regret ever mentioning him. Although, I am related to Nicholas de Vere and he will be added and positioned in my tree where he belongs within relation to my family and that is all.

The original intent of this thread was regarding the 'Aarschot' seat name and it's derivatives. And in reality, I do not have any disrespect for 'Academic' award and merits but I do not appreciate bully tactics from anyone.

Who is a credited genealogist on Geni, please have them verify my family tree and my integrity will stand as testament of my character and bloodline.

-Mary Newton

According to Geni, I am Jaim Harlow's 16th cousin twice removed...

Maybe you should listen to this Interview with Nick (Produced by my husband and I) interview Sir James Robert Wright (A Patented Knights Templar and 32 degree Scottish Rite Freemason.

Please utilize your academic skills and if you can dispute the credentials presented here-in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=omB7hUYxad8

Yes, an interesting interview. I listened to it last night. I would say, "condemned out of his own mouth". So many gaffes, misrepresentations, and evasions. I can't imagine anyone would need to look further.

I'll also offer these links:

A memorial to Prince Nicholas: http://gnosticwarrior.com/nicholas-de-vere-von-drakenberg-1957-2013...

Official rebuttal to Tracy Twyman: http://gnosticwarrior.com/death-of-nicholas-de-vere-le-prieure-de-s...

I think you must be familiar with the second one. Your responses above appear to be a copy / paste from this site.

I was particularly intrigued by this reasoning:

"Yet, another prime example: is the sovereign-nation of ‘Israel’. Without expressing any official stance, faith or belief, and by examining this from a ‘rational’ point of view, the mere existence of the geographical location of ‘Israel’ is a complete farce.
If anything is ‘Crazy’ sounding, it is the Idea that ‘God’ or any ‘Deified’ figure would grant or promise anything, much less a piece of real estate on planet Earth. The fact that ‘Israel’ exists, by far, more than anything else, lends credence to the existence, of the ‘Sovereign Grand Duchy of Drakenberg’.
If the ‘God’ of Israel, can promise the Jews a ‘Promised Land’ why is it, so unbelievable, for the ‘Sovereign Grand Duchy of Drakenberg’ to exist, promised by the Derkesthai heritage itself?"

Mary, if you want to move on we can certainly do that. From what I've seen of your genealogy there is nothing objectionable. You have the same royal descents as the average "middle-class Englishman" -- lines shared by hundreds of Geni users.

So, in the end it is really -- as you say -- beside the point that Nicholas de Vere approved your family's research.

I will even help you enter Nicholas de Vere's line. Not his fake line, of course, but his real line. I'll even help out with a starter package: HRH Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg.

Our only problem will be if you want to alter the de Vere ancestry to match his theories. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Justin,

Thank you.

I appreciate your response to me and yes it would be good to move on.

Justin, I do apologize to you, it was not my intention to argue with anyone and my initial PM to you was not very friendly. And honestly, I do respect your authority regarding medieval history.

And I would welcome any help you are willing to provide. I am new to Geni and should have originally posted my question and info on the discussion thread and not the About section on the 'de Sundgau' profile.

I would like to start over with everyone here on this thread. I love Nick very much and am very passionate about those I love.

Thank you for the starter package and will be in contact with you in the future.

Thanks, Mary. I've enjoyed our spirited debate and I look forward to working with you.

well,this has been some interesting conversation,havent I got some interesting facts. I was raised by a GrandMaster,my family tree has been extremely hard to find as I was left with false names and have now just been able to see connections,that also will I am sure bring a magical element to these current discussions,and days at hand.These things are extremely relevant,and matters of great concern..This is my heritage,that I share with my two sons,one in particular..

I also would like to add,I am sure I am connected to the Stuart line.This is the mystery I now follow

I also should expand one more important conversational point or two..My family were all raised by other family menbers,I know my Grandmother was related to an Aunt Olive,my mothers marriages were all unulled ,and have facially recognised a relative I believe to be married to a Wigram..I have personal feelings of family ties to Marilyn Monroe,Mary Queen of Scotts and so on..gee life was made difficult I am 40 years old,and felt my tree out so to speak,with what would be only said to be from a gift for want of better words..I wonder how correct I may be,andawait these corrections.I see there has been a picture of my Aunty Patricia supplied to a tree,and will release my photographs at hand shortly.I need all the help I can get,not forgetting a relationship with Percival Grainger I know to be fact through family wispers many years ago..I dearly hope to get to the bottom of years of a conspiracy I have faced,and to protect my own children,many thanks and love to all that may be involved with this research