Francoise Martinet, SM/PROG - Parents of Francoise Martinet?

Thanks, Private - this profile does look like it needs work. I see that you, me, Private User & Y. DROST, a1b2c2 have done work on the About Me - so I'm calling the other two here specifically to give their input.
I do think an 'intervention' is needed here. So let's make sure everyone with vested interests is able to contribute.
I'll message this discussion option to the other managers.

The entry for Francoise Martinet in the First Fifty Years Project does not give her parents ( http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g5/p5205.htm)

FYI - these are the notes I have on file

French fugetive arrived 1688 on "Zuid Bevelandt" together w ith husband Louis Cordier and 3 daughters - Susanne, Jeanne and Louise.

M. Boucher's French Speakers at the Cape -
Page 119 - "There is some evidence to suggest that Françoise Martinet was from north-eastern France and she will be discussed in that context later".
The discussion on page 231 doesn't offer anything concrete.

There is a reference on http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http:...

 • Françoise MARTINET (1712), fille d'Isaïe (cité 1711, 1712, 1713, 1714, 1715 et 1727), marchand de Nettancourt et de Suzanne THIERIOT (citée idem), abjura pour épouser Jean NOËL, cultivateur à Charmontois. Six années plus tard, elle quitta le 30.4.1692 son mari et son jeune fils Jean pour rejoindre à Bâle sa mère, veuve, sortie de France peu avant. On les retrouve à Berlin en 1698-1700, la vie étant trop chère à Bâle. 

which I google translated into

 • Françoise Martinet (1712), daughter of Isaiah (cited 1711, 1712, 1713, 1714, 1715 and 1727), merchant and Suzanne Nettancourt THIERIOT (cited ibid), renounced to marry Jean CHRISTMAS Charmontois cultivator. Six years later, she left her husband 30.4.1692 and his young son John in Basel to join his widowed mother, shortly before leaving France. They are found in Berlin in 1698-1700, life is too expensive to Basel. 

Further down the page - (the layout is hard to follow) looks like entries relating to the family!

MARTINET David  PHILIPPE Jeanne  1654.10.18 N
MARTINET Esther  Isaïe ¤ THIERROT Suzanne ¤  1663.07.02 %
MARTINET Françoise  Donnement + Philippe BURGEAT Marie CORDIER Louis  1679.12.03 N
MARTINET Françoise ¤  Isaïe ¤ THIERROT  Suzanne ¤  1667.03.18 N
MARTINET Henry  Jean ANDRé Françoise  1669.09.xx D
MARTINET Henry  Espence Jean 1679.08.15 N
MARTINET Jacques  Espence Jean ANDRé Françoise  1663.07.07 N
MARTINET Jacques  David PHILIPPE Jeanne  1670.11.25 M
MARTINET Jean  ANDRé Françoise 1654.09.27 N
MARTINET Jean  Grand Ru Isaïe ¤ THIERROT  Suzanne ¤  1668.11.24 D
MARTINET Jean  Espence  1683.05.28 N
MARTINET Jeanne  David PHILIPPE Jeanne  1666.10.02 N 
MARTINET Judith  Grand Ru Isaïe ¤ THIERROT  Suzanne ¤  1671.10.17 M
MARTINET Madeleine  Ste-Menehould  SIMON Daniel  1660.08.29 D
MARTINET Madeleine * laboureur  vieux Dampierre  x SIMON Daniel * 1684.10.09 M
MARTINET Pierre OURIET Anne  1646.03.11 M
MARTINET Pierre  BRABANT Madeleine  1653.06.15 N
MARTINET Pierre  Grand Ru Isaïe ¤ THIERROT Suzanne ¤  1665.08.02 D
MARTINET Pierre  Espence David PHILIPPE Jeanne  1673.01.16 N
MARTINET Suzanne Grand Ru Isaïe ¤ THIERROT Suzanne ¤  1670.03.03 M 

There is a reference attached to the Geni profile which is interesting but as it is from a French site to which I do not have a subscription I can't explore it more - I will attach the page below. This reference gives her parents as Philippe Martinet and Marie Burgeat. I suppose the fact that she named one of her sons Philippe could be significant?

I have no source for the parents being Isaie Martinet and Suzanne Thierrot - added by Pieter Louwrens who left Geni ages ago - he was the man who paraded as St. Agatha (?) - so cannot be contacted. I would say unreliable information and that what Jansi has supplied seems better and more reliable. My suggestion is that the two profiles just be changed ro the new identities - I have no problem with that and in fact am happier with this information! Wish we had their DNA as I have her in my direct maternal line!

When you have decided it would be good to pass this information on to Delia. - Re-posting this because having looked more in-depth see that I queried this earlier and add my findings above!

There were obviously two Francoise Martinets? Jansi's marriage entry I would say decides which is "ours" - ??

I think the Epense information is better:

* Their two elder daughters were baptized in Epense (See profiles)
* Isaie's daughter is in Berlin 1698 - 1700 "They are found in Berlin in 1698-1700, life is too expensive to Basel." whereas our Francoise was already at the Cape in 1690 "Distribution List, 18 - 19 April 1690
'Louis Cordier, with wife and four children f475' "

Thankyou so much for starting this discussion, & hereby correcting the previous misinformation..I have descent from Francoise & Louis, through their daughter Louise, so have an obvious interest..Good work!

Have just seen on a site, that Philippe Martinet's parents were Hugues Martinet & Louyse de Goulange.

I do not have any further information and am happy to change Francoise's parents to Philippe Martinet and Marie Burgeat.

What is the source for that? And were they from Epense, or somewhere in Champagne, at least?

The Martinet family were originally from St. Clement , Allier, in the Auvergne region of France.

I suppose there were many Martinet families in France? Not only the two that we know of?

See here http://nl.geneanet.org/search/?name=martinet&annee_debut=1600&a...

8 479 resultaten!

Since Françoise Martinet is my 7th great grandmother I'd obviously like to have her parentage sorted out but I don't have any information to add to what has already been contributed to this discussion and am happy to leave the final outcome to those more knowledgeable than me. I would however be interested to now what geni's policy is on lapsed users of geni. Does their information -- both good and bad -- simply become freely available to everyone on genii?

Ahh, so great that people have been interested enough to respond here. Private, can we ask you to change to the info to the correct values and cite the sources for the reasons in the About Me?

Once you've done this JUne or I can add a Curator note identifying parents to avoid mismerges in the future.
If you think the profile is at risk, yell - and June or I can lock in the naming fields.

Isn't collaborative research a great thing!

PS @June, I cannot contain my curiosity: =added by Pieter Louwrens who left Geni ages ago - he was the man who paraded as St. Agatha (?)= Do tell, Please :-)

As Francoise Martinet, SM/PROG is my 8th great grandmother i am like Edward and eagerly await the outcome of your deliberations.
Also like Sharon very curious! Please do tell.

Private will remember! He logged in as someone who was living in the 1700's! Claimed profile.

:-)

Ja I remember. He even had her picture as hhis own profile picture but named her. But yes it was Pieter Louwrens. We even all had a good laugh at it.

Done!

I've also neatened the about me and removed the irrelevant info - the removed info still shows in the revisions tab if you want to save it somewhere, Sharon. I thought it was better not to confuse people.

I think we can safeley say Isaie was NOT her father since his daughter, Francoise, was in Basel and Berlin during the 1690's while ours was already at the Cape in April 1690.

The two daughters baptized in Epense also fit with our info.

I think a curator note re parents is a good idea

I sometimes make suggestions to Delia - shall I pass this on to her? Or will you, June?

June, I had a subscription to the French site (for which I gave the link on Francoise's profile) which is where I found the marriage entry and baptisms of their two eldest daughters

Thanks Private & a round of applause from us all for a job well done! :-)
I've added the Curator Note.
I don't think we need to keep the deleted stuff - the log of what we did is now here, in case anybody wants to know what happened.

PS Is anyone able to view the doc that is her profile pic?

Nope - I've also just tried, but no joy ...

Re. their origins: Yes there are lots of Martinets, but Philippe, (Francoise's father) Was born in St. Clement Allier, in the Auvergne region of France on 25.9.1639...His parents Hugues Martinet, & Louyse de Goulange were also from there....Actually the Martinet & Goulange names are very well established in that area......Most Protestant French families were from Southern & Central France, & only moved North after they started to experience problems..

The date of birth for Philippe is too late for him to have been Francoise's father, I would say.

The document that is her profile picture is the marriage certificate/entry.

It is also attached as a source document.

Thank you, I found this discussion very interesting. Louis Cordier and Francois Martinet is my husband's ancestors, so I hope you don't mind if I make notes?

Hi All

I found images of the marriage registry entry (original and transcribed) for Louis and Francoise on the online Archive of the Marne department and have added the images to their respective profiles.

As June said, I think the marriage entry is quite clear about the parentage of Francoise Martinet. The other Francoise Martinet also makes an appearance in the protestant records (http://archives.marne.fr) but her baptism date is in 1667 which makes her a wee bit young to be marrying Louis Cordier 12 years later.

This is wonderful! Casts further doubt on his being from Orleans, I think.

Hi All

I transcribed the marriage record as follows:

Aujourdhui troisième decembre mil six cent septante neuf a été Béni en Cette Eglise le mariage de Louis Cordier veuve de maria maquart et de francoise Martinet fille de defunt philippe Martinet et de Marie Burgeat demeurant a Donnement. Ledit Louis Cordier demeurant a Bournonville en presence des freres Jean et David Martinet, Theodore Layr et Jean Tommartier lequel tous ont signe

Vandag die derde Desember sestien-honderd sewe-en-negentig was geseën in hierdie kerk die huwelik van Louis Cordier wewenaar van Marie Maquart en Francoise Martinet dogter van die oorlede Philippe Martinet en Marie Burgeat woonagtig in Donnement. Gemelde Louis Cordier woonagtig in Bournonville. In die teenwoordigheid van die broers Jean en David Martinet, Theodore Layr en Jean Tommartier. Deur almal onderteken

Today third December sixteen hundred seventy-nine was blessed in this church the marriage of Louis Cordier widower of Maria Maquart and Francoise Martinet daughter of the deceased Philippe Martinet and Marie Burgeat residing in Donnement. Said Louis Cordier residing in Bournonville. In the presence of the brothers Jean and David Martinet, Theodore Layr and Jean Tommartier who all have signed

The parentage of Francoise Martinet is therefore clear and we also know that she comes from Donnement (coordinates 48.513193,4.434501 on Google Maps) which is a small village not far away from Bournonville (49.019859,4.924622) where Louis Cordier was living at the time and Epense (48.971992,4.833112) where the marriage was solemnized.

There is also mention of the brothers David and Jean Martinet who I assume are the brothers of Francoise.

Louis