Ann Gary (Douglas) - please verify

Michael, I'm not sure what you'd like us to verify? The information matches what we have on the profile.

Are you looking for help on how to verify this type of information using genealogical methods?

as she is a desendant of mine i had her listed as burried with her father in new london and just wanted to make sure the info was correct but i see it is.. i just need to update my own paper trail off-line.

Private User i had mistakenly written down in my own off-line paper trail that she was burried with her parents william and ann in ct and not ma and so was questioning the new info but it appears valid..

Private User Erica Howton what i had on paper for this person my Granfathers pedigree plus a on-line source was this Nathaniel Geary 1 was born in 1631 in Hertfordshire, Eng. He died on 28 Jun 1679 in Roxbury, Norfolk, MA. He married Ann Douglas on 14 Oct 1658.

Ann Douglas [Parents] 1, 2, 3 was born 4 in 1637 in Scotland. She died on 16 Sep 1691 in Roxbury, Norfolk, MA. She married Nathaniel Geary on 14 Oct 1658.

They had the following children:

F i Hannah Geary 1 was born on 26 Jul 1659 in Lynn, Essex, MA. She died on 28 Jan 1669/1670.
F ii Mary Geary 1 was born on 10 Jul 1661 in Lynn, Essex, MA. She was christened on 30 Oct 1661.
F iii Elizabeth Geary 1 was born on 10 Jul 1661. She was christened on 30 Oct 1661.
M iv Nathaniel Geary 1 was born on 4 Jul 1663.
F v Sarah Geary 1 was born on 3 Jul 1665.
M vi William Geary 1 was born on 7 Mar 1666.
F vii Rebecca Geary 1 was born on 25 Jan 1668.
F viii Hannah Geary
M ix Samuel Geary 1 was born on 7 Sep 1673.
F x Deborah Geary 1 was born on 15 Apr 1676.

Sources Cutter, William Richard, New England Families: Genealogy and Memorial, New York, USA: n.p., 1915. Genealogies of Connecticut Families, Vol. I,.

2nd Charles Henry James Douglas, Collection of Family Records with Biographical Sketches bearing name Douglas (A), PROVIDENCE: E. L. FREEMAN & CO., PUBLISHERS, 1879,, CS71.D734.
"ANN2 DOUGLAS (William1), born in Scotland(*) in 1637. She came with her parents to Massachusetts in 1640, and married, Oct. 14, 1658, Nathaniel Geary, of Lynn. He was born in England, and was the son of Dennis Geary, who came from London to Boston in the "Abigail," in 1635, at the age of 30 years. He died June 28, 1679. Children, born in Lynn:--
i. HANNAH3 GEARY, b. July 26, 1659; d. Jan. 28, 1671.
ii. ELIZABETH3 GEARY, b. July 10, bapt. Oct. 30, 1661.
iii. MARY3 GEARY, b. July 10, bapt. Oct. 30, 1661; d. soon.
iv. NATHANIEL3 GEARY, b. July 4, 1663.
v. SARAH3 GEARY, b. July 3, 1665.
vi. WILLIAM3 GEARY, b. March 4, 1667.
vii. REBECCA3 GEARY, b. Jan. 25, 1669; d. at 10 yrs.
viii. HANNAH3 GEARY, b. July 4, 1671.
ix. SAMUEL3 GEARY, b. Sept. 7, 1673.
x. DEBORAH3 GEARY, b. April 15, 1676; d. at 2 yrs.

I have no way of knowing if this scotish connection is correct or even where in scotland or england she came from.. It appears you have her being born on us soil and not london or else where.

Michael

Is your question about the birth place for Ann (Douglas) Geary?

We already know it "could not have been" Scotland as that has been disproved by the DNA on the YDNA line of her father. You need to update your paper records to the more current information.

So that leaves two choices:

- England
- Connecticut

What year is William Douglas thought to have emigrated to Connecticut?

The way to verify it would be to go back through the sources used by Cutter, who is not always accurate, and see what turns up. You should also go through the sources of the website you found. Since you're working with a broad timeline on this project, your best sources to start with are Barbour and Gale for Connecticut, which I believe you've said is your focus area.

For your own benefit, you also of course ideally want to keep going one generation back at a time from yourself going where the facts take you and diligently citing everything. I think being really methodical with your organization is what is going to make the difference with this project.

What I am more intrigued by is the note in her profile about recent DNA disproving her birthplace and whatnot. I would be very curious to know how someone has arrived at the conclusion. Does anyone have a source for that statement?

Ashley - read the link in the Deacon's profile.

There's very exciting news from the Douglas DNA Project and Michael found it, which was great research on his part.

They have ruled OUT the Douglas of Douglas Clan connection. No match.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/douglasDNA/info

My read of the info given is that it disproves William's believed parentage; I don't see how that disproves a birthplace.

I might as well quote the whole text:

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/douglasDNA/info

"All direct male line Douglases who can trace by tried and true genealogical research to 1610 William are grouped in that table under the heading R1b Group Type 1: (R-U106). From an ancestor of William Douglas, 1610, New London. That means they all have or are predicted to have the U106 SNP mutation. No other participant, of all the Douglases who list Scottish ancestors, or any others for that matter, have that mutation. But thousands of other people of other surnames do have that mutation which says it first occured many years before 1610, like at least 2-3000 years. This says that William Douglas 1610 was not closely related to any other Douglas whose descendants have been tested--no others, whether or not they claim Scottish Ancestry, have the U106 mutation."

"There are a few participants in that same table that claim descendancy from the Earls of Morton. I guarantee you that they are not related to our William 1610s Douglas, or whatever his surname evolved from, ancestors. Discovery by Betsey Howes of the surname in the same area of England, Northamptonshire, at the same time as William's wife lived there, is compelling evidence that our William was not the one baptized in Glasgow."

Someone who has been proven not of Scotland is not very likely to have a child born in Scotland. I mean, it's possible, but unlikely.

But I what I don't know is what vital records of New London has.

I'm pretty sure Cutter was writing the Deacon's biography based on a Scots origin theory.

I read that, but the profile here says "[r]ecent dna testing has disproven the birthplaces of both this person and her parents…"

Your genetics and the location of your birth operate independently of each other. This is too great a leap, it would seem.

He could be from Scotland by birth but born to an English father. That's not uncommon, now or then. Or Ann could be illegitimate. Or on and on.

I'm just saying, it's a hell of a thing to say that DNA proves or disproves location during a period of heavy migrant. It's a big statement.

Feel free to rewrite.

Erica Howton Private User yes I have updated my paper records on the father to this new dna conlusion. ashely pointed out a very good piece of info which is why i started this clean up idea in the first place I had a nagging feeling that some of the earlier sources on the website were in fact inaccurate which ones were i do not know.. I am checking the arivial of deacon douglas (father) on us soil. what is known for him is this.. Where in england\scotland like I said before is at issue.. def not scotland dna has ruled out connections to the douglas of piddenriech as father but that doesn't mean he could not have been born there and traveled to england from scotland..
I have notations of the website which suggets the following

m. probably about 1636, Ann MATTLE, dau. of Thomas MATTLE of Ringstead, England. In 1640, with his wife Ann and two children, Ann and Robert, William DOUGLAS went to New England. Tradition says that they landed at Cape Ann. They settled first in Gloucester, but removed within [p.1 88] the year to Boston, where he is first mentioned in the Boston records on 31st June, 1640 , when he was made a Freeman. Here moved shortly to Ipswich where he was entitled to a share of the public land, 28th February, 1641. There he remained for about four years,returning to Boston in 1645. He was a cooper by trade and on 1st May,1646, there is record of his purchasing from Walter MERRY and Thomas ANCHOR, a dwelling house, shop and land. Later he went to New London, Connecticut, and obtained considerable property through purchase and grants from the town. One of his farms was inherited by his son William and has remained in the hands of descendants for over two centuries. In 1662-1663 he was appointed one of the Appraisers of Property for the town of New London. The land for a new church was purchased from him and the graveyard still remains on that place. He and Mr. WILLERBY were appointed to deliver provisions to Commissary TRACY at Norwich during King Philip's War. His education for the times was liberal. He held many important offices in the town at different times. He was Deputy to the General Court in 1672 and once or twice later. In May, 1670, his wife, then sixty years old made a journey to Boston to establish her claim as heir to her father's property. She d. in New London in 1685 and William DOUGLAS himself d. there on 26th July, 1682
It seems to me if he married his wife in ringstead then he would more then likely be of english stock but research by the dna people in england have found no records of this

Sources for deacon william ( verified or not is a matter of debate)
1Communicated by Charles E. Douglas, Genealogies of Connecticut Families, Vol. I,.

2Charles Henry James Douglas, Collection of Family Records with Biographical Sketches bearing name Douglas (A), PROVIDENCE: E. L. FREEMAN & CO., PUBLISHERS, 1879,, CS71.D734.

3 James Savage, Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England, before 1692 (A).
"*WILLIAM, perhaps of Gloucester first, but of Boston 1640, cooper, freem. 1646, by w. Ann had Ann; Robert, b. 1639; Elizabeth 26 Aug. 1641; Sarah, 8 Apr. 1643; and William, 1 Apr. 1645, the last three bapt. 8 Mar. 1646; rem. to New London, was deac. and rep. 1672, and perhaps later, d. 26 July 1682, aged 71. Ann, his w. was d. of Thomas Mable of Ringstead, Northamptonsh. Ann, his d. m. 14 Oct. 1658, Nathaniel Geary; Elizabeth m. 16 Feb. 1659, John Chandler; both of Roxbury; and Sarah m. 1661, John Keeny of New London."

5Cutter, William Richard, New England Families: Genealogy and Memorial, New York, USA: n.p., 1915, Page 785.

6Transcribed by Susan G. Taylor, New London Vital Statistics from the Collated Copy from the Original Records, Vol 1, (S.l.: s. n., c1900?), rebound copy, http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/nl1.html, Rootsweb.com.
"1682.
William Douglas sen. departed this life aged years 26th of July."

7Charles Henry James Douglas, Collection of Family Records with Biographical Sketches bearing name Douglas (A).

8Cutter, William Richard, New England Families: Genealogy and Memorial.

Private User and
erica I see your line of thought of the orgin of the father and i agree with you it's tricky.. I will have to hunt down the link to the discussion group in england on the orgins of the father and post it..

It's not just a mere wording issue...I'm trying to avoid repeating the sins of Cutter.

Michael, which website?

Michael it's right here

groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/douglasDNA/info

What you want to find for Ashley is the ftdna project that demonstrates through y DNA testing that descendants of Dea William of New London are ruled out from being descendants of the known & tested Douglas of Scotland lines, as well as the Douglas of Morton (English) line.

The researchers are suggesting look to Nottinghamshire for origins.

In the meantime we broke the connection many older pedigrees had and created the unknown parents.

Private User and erica i agree with you on that the cuttler research is skechy at best.
several points of intrest #1
http://douglashistory.ning.com/group/descendantsofdeaconwilliamdoug...
#2 http://douglashistory.ning.com/group/descendantsofdeaconwilliamdoug...
#3 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/douglasDNA/info
feel free to ask the moderator on the website if you have any questions.. I would also ask http://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/WilliamDouglas if you have any info thanks. I am leaving that for the moment as a peerage under review question and trying to focus on what i know which is his ancestry in the us.

erica i will look for the ftdna project in a second. I was pointing her towards the scotish group trrying to pinpoint the orgins and the research group suggesting we look at england.

Basicly all I have is a paper trail that seems to say in boston records as of 1640 and even that is at issue

http://douglashistory.ning.com/notes/William_Douglas%2C_b1610

http://books.google.com/books?id=GidKAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcov...

http://douglashistory.ning.com/forum/topics/william-douglass-1610-1...

Those are good finds, Michael. Can you pick out from it which refers specifically to

Ann Douglas [Parents] 1, 2, 3 was born 4 in 1637 in Scotland. (married Nathaniel Geary)

Which seems to possibly be a claim that conflicts with more current research?

What I understand so far is

- Scotland origins are ruled out
- English origins are ruled in
- oldest daughter Ann was born before emigration and the 1st record in Boston, 1640

"m. probably about 1636, Ann MATTLE, dau. of Thomas MATTLE of Ringstead, England. In 1640, with his wife Ann and two children, Ann and Robert, William DOUGLAS went to New England. Tradition says that they landed at Cape Ann."

What is the distance between Ringstead, England & Scotland?

The website has a write up on william ann's father in which the info is given that wiliam and ann and their children arived at cape ann from england and that william the father was born in scotland in 1610 ,, and the google book says the same thing but i don't know if i buy that anymore because of the fact that he married in ringstead england.. if you look on the google book page 55

and in answer to your question between edinburgh scotland and ringstead england about 350 to 400 miles give or take.