John Bell - Cleaning up the descendants of John Bell and Isobel Robson (both circa 1700)

Private User ... there are currently two Agnes Bell's: are you sure those are not just a typo in the birth dates?

The two pairs of brothers were fairly obvious because the earlier-born child also had a death date prior to the next-born child of same name.

While it is entirely plausible to have add the same situation with two female children, without a death date for the earlier-born -- or some other "Source" document ...

Hi Dan, it could be a typo, a decade apart, but I see the two separate Agens girls in three separate original trees. It could be that the typo was repeated twice from the same source, but just to play it safe, it might be best to keep the two Agnes girls separate in the initail round of merges.

The later born Agnes girl has a husband.

This wife should be merged.

She is variably known as Isabell Oar, Isobel Orr, Isobel Carr, or Isabel Kerr.

Isabel Bell

Unknown Profile

I am fairly sure that she is the same woman, a single wife of Robert Bell b. 1738.

This Isabel is the mother of a William Bell b. 1788. There may be another William Bell son as well, but probably not. It is kind of hard to tell yet. I requested that one of the three or four Williams be set to Public from Private so we can get a clear view.

You need to resolve the data conflicts with that merged Isabel profile.

Be cautious in looking much further down the tree. The some (many?) displayed names do NOT follow the Geni convention -- they have the married name within parentheses instead of birth name.

I would recommend going through and editing those profiles' names into "standard form" before looking at merging any further in that area.

Dan,
You of course mean the "standard form" used in that part of the Geni tree, yes?
Because we wouldn't want to give anyone the false impression that some sort of pan-Geni convention exists.

English language naming conventions might be presumed from English language names?

Whatever is appropriate for the era/area/people involved.
I just felt it important to high light the fact that there is no such thing as a "Geni naming convention".
As the song says - You must remember this:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/108497?msg=792322&page=1

You do like to remind of nightmares? :)

English language conventions for English names in English language speaking countries by English language speaking natives can, I believe, figure it out for themselves without additional reminders. :):)

Yes i agree but English language speaking natives in English language speaking countries don't only work on English names in English language speaking countries and i wanted to make sure that they realise that English language conventions are not the conventions used by everyone in Geni.

On an English language discussion about ... Wait, this discussion about tree cleanup, not name cleanup. The "correct" name to use and display for the variously spelled Isabel will sort.

LOL - of course: convention for this area of the tree (i.e.: all the other relatives). The "different name sequences" are most likely the result of whatever program was used to create a GEDCOM that uploaded that grouping of profiles.

Here is one example (that also has seemly unexpected relationships): Margaret Bell

I cleaned up the first couple generations, and it looks pretty good. I particularly like the looks of John Bell's timeline.

Isobel Robson still needs a data conflict resolve by that manager. I sent a request yesterday.

Further forward on the Young line, it looks good, except that
John Young is a youth who died young, and had an older brother by the same name. He needs to have his birth order sorted properly.

It is a bit of a complex family, with his half-brothers by an earlier wife of his father. But other than the sort, it looks pretty good.

Now I think it is going to make sense to merge these wives, so we can then have a clearer view of the duplicate children.

Agness Bell Master Profile

Unknown Profile

This appears to me to be the same woman, and so I think they should be merged. Each of these was created by a single separtate manager, and there are no descendants of either profile.

She evidently did have a spouse, and died in childbirth at age 25, but no profiles exist here to complicate it.

Unknown Profile

Janet Mien (Bell)

[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XJ8N-V5T 1883 marriage of William Douglas Bell, son of Richard Bell and his second wife, Margaret Hall, at Cass, Iowa]

[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MDK1-81F 1880 census, Victoria, Cass, Iowa, showing parents Robert Bell and Margaret Hall, and three youngest sons William D. Bell, Thomas H. Bell and Richard D. Bell]

This next part is a bit complicated. There is a false marriage showing between Margaret Wyllie and Margaret Hall. That marriage needs to be separated. Most of the earlier children need to stay with Margaret Wyllie. Only the two youngest sons should go with Margaret Hall, being Thomas and Richard.

This son William Donald below is a bit difficult, because he also came to Iowa, but Margaret Hall has a marriage of 1859, so William Donald, b. 1855, must be a son of Ms. Wyllie instead Ms. Hall.

son of Margaret Wyllie:

* William Douglas Bell

Sons of Margaret Hall:

* Thomas H. Bell

* Richard Douglas Bell

The two sons of Hall, Thomas and Richard, also show up in duplicate profiles with a Hall surname, and so it seems evident to me that they are the same as the two Hall sons above, and should be merged, keeping the Bell surname instead of Hall.

I have not put up any merges here with these sons at present, because I think the circular marriage needs to be fixed first, to get a clearer view of the duplicates.

Probably it will be most sensiisble to first move the early Wyllie children over to parent Richard T. Bell, instead of Margaret Hall. I do not have access to any of those children.

I have also posted the 1880 census to the bio pages of the Iowas parents, for easy reference.

Actually, I just realized that in William Douglas Bell marriage above, he is listed as son of Margaret Hall, not Wyllie. So his mother being Hall is still problematic, to fit in the given timelines. Without a Scotland birth record, It's a judgment call as to which mother to assign him to. If he goes with Hall, then the Wyllie death and Hall marriage will have to be moved. They are currently entered at 1856 and 1859, respectively. Those dates fit only if William Douglas was born to Wyllie.

As far as I am aware there were one of each named children except for Robert. Robert had one wife - think that the grave stone was difficult to read. We think it was Orr. Could try to locate it and possibly clarify.....at some point. The duplicate William is a problem - the one who was married may not be on the same line! No mother's name given on old records.

Hi Kate, it appears to me that the only current outstanding needed cleanup involves profiles that only you manage.

If you will please, take a look at your profile of

Margaret Bell

You will see that you have created duplicates of all of her children, and also duplicates of some of the children that really belong to the second wife, Margaret Hall and her common husband with Margaret Wyllie..

the other error needing adjustment is that you have set both Margarets as spouses of each other, in addition to their marriage to the father.

You can fix the children relationships on your own, in the Edit, Relationships screen. But the needed break apart of the marriage of the two women to each other, and then a needed merge of the duplicate children, will have to be done by a Pro.

If you give me management of each of the children, I will be able to fix that part for you.

I took a closer look. How about we start with this? We first need a merge of these two women. So then nobody will get disconnected from the tree.

Margaret Bell Master Profile

Unknown Profile profile by Kate, married in error to Margaret Wyllie

I also clarified with a birth record the Wyllie mother William Douglas Bell. I created a separate discussion for his cleanup and needed merges here

http://www.geni.com/discussions/113301

And since we are getting so many generations confused in the discussion here, I also created a separate discusision to handle the needed details and merging of Richard Douglas Bell, with his birth record also, here

http://www.geni.com/discussions/113292

Okay so now the marriage sort looks good, thanks Dan. In the process, this next profile

Janet Bell

was never connected to her father

Richard T. Bell

re: 'janet bell' and her father 'Richard T. Bell' ... that's because her mother was still a duplicate of 'Margaret Wyllie'. I dealt with that.

Hi, Kate (Bell) McAllan! Thanks for jumping in on these discussions. It seems that between you and Steven you have most of the info and the capability to finish straightening out the relationships and information. (more in a few moments)

re: duplicate children of "top of the tree" John Bell ... particularly Agnes:

So, if Agnes Bell (6000000010750862799) and Agnes Bell (6000000010751235213) are the same, which birth date is correct? 1726 or 1736?

I did not make those Master Profiles earlier (just because it looked too much like a typo difference), so y'all should be able to merge them.

Let me know if the brother's Thomas are really the same; they can be un-MP'd to merge them if that is truly the situation.