William Wallace ( Braveheart)

Well, it helps, I think, to read more of the "About"s and look at the merges.

Here's what I propose:

The father & mother of Isabella Seton are too young, and it seems, in particular, that the father Sir William Seton, Kt. is really a child of his current grandparents, Sir Alexander Seton, IV and Christian Cheyne. The ages fit.

Moreover, Isabella Seton's birth fits as a possible daughter of Sir Alexander Seton, IV and Christian Cheyne as well -- but I don't think that is probable, ...

... based on ....

Again, moreover(!), reading Sir Alexander Seton, IV's and Sir William Seton, Kt.'s (a son's) "About" indicates he (Alexander) died without SURVIVING male issue -- and THAT is what made Margaret (Margaret de Seton, heiress of Seton) the heiress of Seton -- not that she was the only child, but that she was the only (or oldest?) surviving female at the time of Sir Alexander Seton, IV's death after 1348 (when he had a 'safe conduct').

Thus, the current other son (Sir John de Seton, 2nd Lord Seton) of Sir Alexander Seton, IV needs to find his real parents elsewhere -- he (John) would have been age 3 about the time the three sons of Sir Alexander Seton, IV died (between 1832 & 1833).

Here is a key (to me) assertion (which is mostly consistent with other sources):
----------------------------------------------------
By his wife, Christian, daughter of Cheyne of Straloch, he [Alexander b 1266] had three sons and a daughter, namely, Alexander, killed in opposing the landing of Edward Baliol near Kinghorn, 6th August 1332; Thomas, [died as a hostage 1333] already mentioned; and William, drowned in an attack on the English fleet at Berwick, in sight of his father, in July 1333. The daughter, Margaret, became heiress of Seton. She married Alan de Wyntoun, supposed to have been a cadet of the Seton family. This marriage, we are told, produced a feud in East Lothian, and occasioned more than a hundred ploughs to be laid aside from labour. His [Alan's] children took the name of Seton. He [Alan] died in the Holy Land, leaving a son, Sir William Seton, and a daughter, Christian or Margaret, countess of Dunbar and March.

Source: Electricscotland.com - Google (17.6.2010)
----------------------------------------------------------

More on Isabella Seton to come ... there were possible references in other 'About's.

Going back up the tree a bit more, it looks like there is a whole pair of duplicated generations in that Seton branch ... or at least dates that got selected improperly after some mis-merges (that latter seems most likely, based on some of the "About" information).

e.g.: Sir Christopher de Seton, Knight showed 1357 death instead of documented 1306 or 1307 date.

Dan, I am pretty sure there is 3 different generations of Christopher Setons. The setonfamily.com website is pretty useful in trying to sort the seton tree.

The fella that made this website is himself a Seton that has been researching his family for a long time. Has loads of information and family tree's of all the various branches of the Seton family. HERES THE LINK
http://www2.thesetonfamily.com:8080/

Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 21st Great Grandfather
and Lady Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington is your 21st Great Grandmother
Aumale, Bailleul, BALIOL, Baliol of Barnard Castle, Baillie, BALLIOL, Borthwick, Braidfute, BYWELL, CLERK, d'Aumale, de Bailleul, de Baliol, de Balliol, de Borthwick, de Dover, de Fontaines, de Huntington, de Knightley, de Lutegareshale, de MONTGOMERY,
de Picquigny, de Seton, de Strathbogie, DOUGLAS, Dover, DRURY, Fontaines, Galloway, GIBBONS, GRAY, HANDY, Helicourt, Helicourt de Bailleul, HENDERSON, HEPBURN, HOME, HUNTINGTON, HUNTLEY, HUTCHESON, Knightley,KOPITOWSKI, LAUDER, LESLIE, LINDSAY, Lutegareshale, MERCER, MONTGOMERY, OGILVY, PEADIE, Picquingny, REID, RENNIE, ROSSLYN, RUSSELL, RUTHVEN, SCHWENGER, Seton, SINCLAIR, Strathbogie, THOMPSON, WALLACE,Wotherspoon aka Weatherspoon
which includes the Lineages of: SIR WILLIAM 'BRAVEHEART' WALLACE & ROSSLYN

Wydo Baliol is your 32nd great grandfather.

Wydo Baliol is your 32nd Great Grandfather
Wydo de Bailleul LINK to lineages

Bailol Seal Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace Seal Wallace Seal
(Since it is pressed into something, it would be backwards)
Wydo Baliol is your 32nd Great Grandfather


Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 21st great grandfather.
Sir William Wallace of Elderslie, Kt.


This same lineage of RH NEG'S also goes into
del Acqs - Lady of The Lake, Queen Viviane del Acqs
Daughter of Owen Desposyni, Archdruid & Prince Bard
and, Queen Amlawdd D. Acqs, Queen of Avalon:
Judith de Nantes is your 29th great grandmother.

(WHICH GOES UP TO: BORS, King of Gaul
& Queen Viviane del Acqs, Lady of The Lake, Queen of Avalon - Camelot,
Daughter of Owen Desposyni, Archdruid & Prince Bard
and Amlawdd D Acqs, Queen of Avalon
is your 41st Great Grandfather & your 41st Great Grandmother
Bors the Elder, Malory Text

http://www.thuban.spruz.com/gfile/75r4!-!GKLGHE!-!zrzor45!-!HSQDQOH...

The Seal of Wallace (Bailol)
(From the private collection of Susan Lynne Schwenger)
21st Great Granddaughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace

-when this is pressed into wax,
it reverses, and, looks like the two coat of arms
posted below

http://media.geni.com/p13/97/35/d7/ec/5344483a80eb3ad1/wydo3_medium...
The Coat of Arms of Bailol

http://media.geni.com/p13/62/19/15/d3/5344483ace77c0e5/c1ed2ed28801...
The Coat of Arms of Wallace

Since it also comes down from Del Acqs & Desposyni
~it also runs into Sinclair of Rosslyn or Roslin

Here is another profile on Isabel de Seton (admittedly I did not do this research...someone else added this on to my tree. (By the way, how do I get rid of all the additions to my tree that are incorrect!? It is infuriating that I am doing all this research and every time I log on, some person who I don't know has added things on that I didn't approve! And some of it is WRONG!

Isabella de Balfour-MacDuff

Deanna

If you look at the "added by" date on the profile you mention, it is Added by: Scott David Hibbard on July 5, 2008 - and you joined in 2010. So technically? You've added your tree with Scott Hibbard's and without his approval. :)

In the Geni World Family tree we they and get away from "my tree" terminology, it's all one tree, like the tree of life. There are just branches where people develop areas of interest and expertise and are kind enough to share their research with their cousins.

When you see an uncited profile like this one -chances are good somebody, or more likely, many somebodies over many years, have done decent research. They've shorted handed it in a profile without notes or documents, so when it's in a tree, its hard for a non expert in the area to know if it's right or not.

If you know, help out by making notes & citations.

The other thing is if the profile is correct, ask for Master Profile protection so it stays correct. The discussion for that is here:

http://www.geni.com/discussions/83475

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa-ZdAjppHo

Thanks, Victar. I found some time to watch it. Good stuff. I'd like to see us firm up some of the details on Wallace's profile and remove some of the legend.

William Wallace myths busted

Gary Stewart, from the Society of William Wallace separates the truth from the fiction about the legend ‘Braveheart’ Wallace.

http://www.scotsman.com/heritage/people-places/william-wallace-myth...

Thanks for posting that, I saw there was a new article out.

Could we at least get rid of the old idea he was a son of Malcolm? I liked that idea myself but If it's not the majority opinion of the experts then it's not the best choice.

who changed things, that took him from being a great great ... grandfather to being a cousin ?

for ben angel

Braveheart connections to: Baillie, Sinclair, Baliol, Ruthven, Gray, Seton, Baliol, Montgomery-Saint Germain
December 7, 2013 at 3:23pm
Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 23rd great grandfather.
Knight Wiilliam "Braveheart" Wallace
Sir William Wallace of Elderslie, Kt.


ANCESTORS – Matrical & Patrical in this lineage:
Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt
Sir Malcolm Wallace, Laird of Elderslie
Margaret Wallace
Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington;
Richard Ball of Galloway
Elizabeth Baillie
Sinclair of Rosslyn – Roslin
Boudicca
Prasutegus
Pendragon- Head Dragon
Susan Lynne Schwenger
Lynda Mae Handy - Schwenger
Murray Bruce Schwenger
Kenneth James Schwenger
Allan Schwenger
Jamie Ida Schwenger
JAMES "Jim" EDWARD HANDY JR. her
JAMES HANDY
Viola Mae Drury-Handy
Marrian Marion Ruthven-Handy-Satchell
Alexander Ruthven
Robert Ruthven
John Ruthven
John Ruthven
John Ruthven
George Ruthven
William Alexander Ruthven
William Ruthven
Mary Gray - Seaton - Ruthven
Marion Gray
Helen Ogilvy (Sinclair), Lady Ogilvy of Airlie
Margaret Hepburn
Patrick Hepburn, 1st Earl of Bothwell
Adam Hepburn, Master of Hailes, Sheriff of Berwick
Ellen Wallace of Elderslie
Thomas Wallace, of Auchinbothy
Malcolm Wallace,
Wallace, Heiress of Elderslie
Helen Baillie, of Lamington
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. her father
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
Isabella de Seton
Sir William Seton
Katherine Sinclair
Alexander de Baliol of Cavers
Isabella de Strathbogie
Richard de Dover, Baron of Chilham
Matilda nic Máel Coluim, Countess of Angus
John de Baliol
Devorguilla (Dearbhfhorghaill) of Galloway -Fotheringhay Castle, Galloway, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Alan, Lord of Galloway
Margaret de Huntington
Hugh de Baliol of Barnard Castle aka
Hugh Gainford de Bailleul (de Baliol), Lord of Biwell & Hiche
Cecily de Fontaines – Richmond Castle, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Aléaume I, seigneur de Fontaines
Laura de Saint-Valéry
Eustace de Baliol aka
Eustache Helicourt de Bailleul, seigneur de Bailleul en Vimeu et de Hornoy
Perronnelle
Piers de Lutegareshale
Matilda (Maud) NN
Bernard de Balliol, Baron of Bywell of Barnard Castle
Agnès de Picquigny
Gérard I, Seigneur de Picquigny
Béatrix d'Aumale
Barnard de Balliol aka
Bernard (Reginald) de Baliol (de Bailleul), I
Baroness Maud Bywell
FNU de Bailio
Hugh II de Baliol, of Bywell aka
Guy de Baliol (de Bailleul)
Reginald de Balliol , Sheriff of Shropshire aka Rainald aka
(Renard, Reynold, Reginald) de Knightley (de Balliol), Sheriff of Shropshire
Ameria de Montgomery - Saint-Germain-de-Montgomery, Lower Normandy, France
Reginald de Balliol, Sheriff of Shropshire
Guy de Balliol
Wydo Baliol
GREAT UNCLES:
Malcolm Wallace
John Wallace
Andrew Wallace
John Wallace of Riccarton, later Craigie


LINEAGES: Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt
Birth: January 1272 Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Death: August 23, 1305 (33) The Elms at Smithfield, London, Middlesex, England
( hanged, disemboweled, beheaded)

Immediate Family:
Son of Sir Malcolm Wallace, Laird of Elderslie
and Margaret Wallace
Husband of Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Father of Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Brother of Malcolm Wallace; John Wallace; Andrew Wallace
and John Wallace of Riccarton, later Craigie

http://www.geni.com/.../Elizabeth.../6000000012668053252...
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamingtonew
Birth:circa 1295 Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)
Death:1320 (25) Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)
Immediate Family:
Daughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt.
and Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Wife of Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
Mother of William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington;
Richard Ball of Galloway, and Elizabeth Baillie

Curated by: Ben Angel

Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
http://www.geni.com/.../Sir.../6000000012668075248...

lineage goes up to : Guy de Balliol
and, this lineage also runs over the Sinclair of Rosslyn - Roslin,
and, into Pendragon, and, up to Boudicca & Prasutagus of The Iceni

Brian Bayley says: Very interesting. Thanks for the post, Susan!

Susan Lynne Schwenger says: glad you found this interesting
- i've done quite a bit of work connecting the dots
here you can see, how it goes back into wallace
-- Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig is your 22nd great grandfather.

Susan Lynne Schwenger You → Lynda Mae Handy - Schwenger your mother → JAMES "Jim" EDWARD HANDY JR. her father → JAMES HANDY his father → Marrian Marion Ruthven-Handy-Satchell his mother → Alexander Ruthven her father → Robert Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → George Ruthven his father → William Alexander Ruthven his father → William Ruthven his father → Mary Gray - Seaton - Ruthven his mother → Marion Gray her mother → Helen Ogilvy (Sinclair), Lady Ogilvy of Airlie her mother → Margaret Hepburn her mother → Patrick Hepburn, 1st Earl of Bothwell her father → Adam Hepburn, Master of Hailes, Sheriff of Berwick his father → Ellen Wallace of Elderslie his mother → Thomas Wallace, of Auchinbothy her father → daughter of Malcolm Wallace, heiress of Elderslie his mother → Helen Baillie, of Lamington her mother → William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington her father → Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig his father
and, then goes up - William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington her father
→ Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington his mother
→ Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. her father

William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
is your 19th Great Grandfather
Isabella de Seton is your 19th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1330Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
Daughter of Sir William Seton and Katherine Sinclair


→


Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprighis father
is your 20th Great Grandfather
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, heiress of Lamington is your 20th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1295Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)Managed by: jessie whitmire
Daughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 21st Great Grandfather
and Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington is your 21st Great Grandmother
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, Knight his father is your 21st Great Grandfather
→
Alexander de Baliol of Cavershis father is your 22nd Great Grandfather
Isabella de Strathbogie is your 22nd Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1245Chilham, Kent, , England
Daughter of Richard de Dover, Baron of Chilham and Matilda nic Máel Coluim, Countess of Angus
→
John de Baliol - his father - is your 23rd Great Grandfather
Devorguilla (Dearbhfhorghaill) of Galloway is your 23rd Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1218Fotheringhay Castle, Galloway, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Daughter of Alan, Lord of Galloway and Margaret de Huntingt

→
Hugh de Baliol of Barnard Castle aka Hugh Gainford de Bailleul (de Baliol), Lord of Biwell & Hiche
his father - is your 24th Great Grandfather
Cecily de Fontaines is your 24th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1195Richmond Castle, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Daughter of Aléaume I, seigneur de Fontaines and Laura de Saint-Valéry


→


Eustace de Baliol aka Eustache Helicourt de Bailleul, seigneur de Bailleul en Vimeu et de Hornoy
his father -is your 25th Great Grandfather
Perronnelle Fitzpiers is your 25 Great GrandmotherBirth: 1168
Shere Farmbridge,,Essex,England
Daughter of Piers de Lutegareshale and Matilda (Maud) NN


→


Bernard de Balliol, Baron of Bywell of Barnard Castle
his father - is your 26th Great Grandfather
Agnès de Picquigny is your 26th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1148Piquigny, FranceDaughter of Gérard I, Seigneur de Picquigny and Béatrix d'Aumale
→
Barnard de Balliol aka Bernard (Reginald) de Baliol (de Bailleul), I
his father - is your 27th Great Grandfather
Baroness Maud Bywell is your 27th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1090Bailleul,Nord,,France


→


FNU de Bailio
lhis father -is your 28th Great Grandfather


→


Hugh II de Baliol, of Bywell aka Guy de Baliol (de Bailleul)
his father -is your 29th Great Grandfather


→


Reginald de Balliol , Sheriff of Shropshire aka Rainald
(Renard, Reynold, Reginald) de Knightley (de Balliol), Sheriff of Shropshire
his father is your 30th Great Grandfather
Ameria de Montgomery is your 30th Great Grandmother
Birth: 1045Montgommery, Saint-Germain-de-Montgommery,
Lower Normandy, France


Reginald de Balliol, Sheriff of Shropshire
his father - is your 30th Great Grandfather

→
Guy de Balliol
his father - is your 31st Great Grandfather

→


Wydo Baliol
his father - is your 32nd great grandfather


Wydo Baliol

ANCESTORS – Matrical & Patrical in this lineage:
Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt
Sir Malcolm Wallace, Laird of Elderslie
Margaret Wallace
Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington;
Richard Ball of Galloway
Elizabeth Baillie
Sinclair of Rosslyn – Roslin
Boudicca
Prasutegus
Pendragon- Head Dragon
Susan Lynne Schwenger
Lynda Mae Handy - Schwenger
Murray Bruce Schwenger
Kenneth James Schwenger
Allan Schwenger
Jamie Ida Schwenger
JAMES "Jim" EDWARD HANDY JR. her
JAMES HANDY
Viola Mae Drury-Handy
Marrian Marion Ruthven-Handy-Satchell
Alexander Ruthven
Robert Ruthven
John Ruthven
John Ruthven
John Ruthven
George Ruthven
William Alexander Ruthven
William Ruthven
Mary Gray - Seaton - Ruthven
Marion Gray
Helen Ogilvy (Sinclair), Lady Ogilvy of Airlie
Margaret Hepburn
Patrick Hepburn, 1st Earl of Bothwell
Adam Hepburn, Master of Hailes, Sheriff of Berwick
Ellen Wallace of Elderslie
Thomas Wallace, of Auchinbothy
Malcolm Wallace,
Wallace, Heiress of Elderslie
Helen Baillie, of Lamington
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. her father
William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
Isabella de Seton
Sir William Seton
Katherine Sinclair
Alexander de Baliol of Cavers
Isabella de Strathbogie
Richard de Dover, Baron of Chilham
Matilda nic Máel Coluim, Countess of Angus
John de Baliol
Devorguilla (Dearbhfhorghaill) of Galloway -Fotheringhay Castle, Galloway, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Alan, Lord of Galloway
Margaret de Huntington
Hugh de Baliol of Barnard Castle aka
Hugh Gainford de Bailleul (de Baliol), Lord of Biwell & Hiche
Cecily de Fontaines – Richmond Castle, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Aléaume I, seigneur de Fontaines
Laura de Saint-Valéry
Eustace de Baliol aka
Eustache Helicourt de Bailleul, seigneur de Bailleul en Vimeu et de Hornoy
Perronnelle
Piers de Lutegareshale
Matilda (Maud) NN
Bernard de Balliol, Baron of Bywell of Barnard Castle
Agnès de Picquigny
Gérard I, Seigneur de Picquigny
Béatrix d'Aumale
Barnard de Balliol aka
Bernard (Reginald) de Baliol (de Bailleul), I
Baroness Maud Bywell
FNU de Bailio
Hugh II de Baliol, of Bywell aka
Guy de Baliol (de Bailleul)
Reginald de Balliol , Sheriff of Shropshire aka Rainald aka
(Renard, Reynold, Reginald) de Knightley (de Balliol), Sheriff of Shropshire
Ameria de Montgomery - Saint-Germain-de-Montgommery, Lower Normandy, France
Reginald de Balliol, Sheriff of Shropshire
Guy de Balliol
Wydo Baliol
GREAT UNCLES:
Malcolm Wallace
John Wallace
Andrew Wallace
John Wallace of Riccarton, later Craigie


LINEAGES: Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt
Birth: January 1272 Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Death: August 23, 1305 (33) The Elms at Smithfield, London, Middlesex, England
( hanged, disemboweled, beheaded)

Immediate Family:
Son of Sir Malcolm Wallace, Laird of Elderslie
and Margaret Wallace
Husband of Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Father of Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Brother of Malcolm Wallace; John Wallace; Andrew Wallace
and John Wallace of Riccarton, later Craigie

http://www.geni.com/.../Elizabeth.../6000000012668053252...
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamingtonew
Birth:circa 1295 Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)
Death:1320 (25) Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)
Immediate Family:
Daughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt.
and Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Wife of Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
Mother of William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington;
Richard Ball of Galloway, and Elizabeth Baillie

Curated by: Ben Angel

Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
http://www.geni.com/.../Sir.../6000000012668075248...

lineage goes up to : Guy de Balliol
and, this lineage also runs over the Sinclair of Rosslyn - Roslin,
and, into Pendragon, and, up to Boudicca & Prasutagus of The Iceni

Brian Bayley says: Very interesting. Thanks for the post, Susan!

Susan Lynne Schwenger says: glad you found this interesting
- i've done quite a bit of work connecting the dots
here you can see, how it goes back into wallace
-- Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig is your 22nd great grandfather.

Susan Lynne Schwenger You → Lynda Mae Handy - Schwenger your mother → JAMES "Jim" EDWARD HANDY JR. her father → JAMES HANDY his father → Marrian Marion Ruthven-Handy-Satchell his mother → Alexander Ruthven her father → Robert Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → George Ruthven his father → William Alexander Ruthven his father → William Ruthven his father → Mary Gray - Seaton - Ruthven his mother → Marion Gray her mother → Helen Ogilvy (Sinclair), Lady Ogilvy of Airlie her mother → Margaret Hepburn her mother → Patrick Hepburn, 1st Earl of Bothwell her father → Adam Hepburn, Master of Hailes, Sheriff of Berwick his father → Ellen Wallace of Elderslie his mother → Thomas Wallace, of Auchinbothy her father → daughter of Malcolm Wallace, heiress of Elderslie his mother → Helen Baillie, of Lamington her mother → William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington her father → Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig his father
and, then goes up - William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington her father
→ Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington his mother
→ Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. her father

William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
is your 19th Great Grandfather
Isabella de Seton is your 19th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1330Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
Daughter of Sir William Seton and Katherine Sinclair


→


Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprighis father
is your 20th Great Grandfather
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, heiress of Lamington is your 20th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1295Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)Managed by: jessie whitmire
Daughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 21st Great Grandfather
and Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington is your 21st Great Grandmother
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, Knight his father is your 21st Great Grandfather
→
Alexander de Baliol of Cavershis father is your 22nd Great Grandfather
Isabella de Strathbogie is your 22nd Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1245Chilham, Kent, , England
Daughter of Richard de Dover, Baron of Chilham and Matilda nic Máel Coluim, Countess of Angus
→
John de Baliol - his father - is your 23rd Great Grandfather
Devorguilla (Dearbhfhorghaill) of Galloway is your 23rd Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1218Fotheringhay Castle, Galloway, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Daughter of Alan, Lord of Galloway and Margaret de Huntingt

→
Hugh de Baliol of Barnard Castle aka Hugh Gainford de Bailleul (de Baliol), Lord of Biwell & Hiche
his father - is your 24th Great Grandfather
Cecily de Fontaines is your 24th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1195Richmond Castle, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Daughter of Aléaume I, seigneur de Fontaines and Laura de Saint-Valéry


→


Eustace de Baliol aka Eustache Helicourt de Bailleul, seigneur de Bailleul en Vimeu et de Hornoy
his father -is your 25th Great Grandfather
Perronnelle Fitzpiers is your 25 Great GrandmotherBirth: 1168
Shere Farmbridge,,Essex,England
Daughter of Piers de Lutegareshale and Matilda (Maud) NN


→


Bernard de Balliol, Baron of Bywell of Barnard Castle
his father - is your 26th Great Grandfather
Agnès de Picquigny is your 26th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1148Piquigny, FranceDaughter of Gérard I, Seigneur de Picquigny and Béatrix d'Aumale
→
Barnard de Balliol aka Bernard (Reginald) de Baliol (de Bailleul), I
his father - is your 27th Great Grandfather
Baroness Maud Bywell is your 27th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1090Bailleul,Nord,,France


→


FNU de Bailio
lhis father -is your 28th Great Grandfather


→


Hugh II de Baliol, of Bywell aka Guy de Baliol (de Bailleul)
his father -is your 29th Great Grandfather


→


Reginald de Balliol , Sheriff of Shropshire aka Rainald
(Renard, Reynold, Reginald) de Knightley (de Balliol), Sheriff of Shropshire
his father is your 30th Great Grandfather
Ameria de Montgomery is your 30th Great Grandmother
Birth: 1045Montgommery, Saint-Germain-de-Montgommery,
Lower Normandy, France


Reginald de Balliol, Sheriff of Shropshire
his father - is your 30th Great Grandfather

→
Guy de Balliol
his father - is your 31st Great Grandfather

→


Wydo Baliol
his father - is your 32nd great grandfather


Wydo Baliol

Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 23rd great grandfather.
Knight Wiilliam "Braveheart" Wallace
Sir William Wallace of Elderslie, Kt.
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Susan Lynne Schwenger
Susan Lynne Schwenger Braveheart
Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt
Sir Malcolm Wallace, Laird of Elderslie
Margaret Wallace
Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington
Malcolm Wallace William Wallace - BraveheartTim Wallace-Murphyohn Wallace; Andrew Wallace
and John Wallace of Riccarton, later Craigie

http://www.geni.com/.../Elizabeth.../6000000012668053252...
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamingtonew
Birth:circa 1295 Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)
Death:1320 (25) Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)
Immediate Family:
Daughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt.
and Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington
Wife of Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
Mother of William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington;
Richard Ball of Galloway, and Elizabeth Baillie

Curated by: Ben Angel

Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig
http://www.geni.com/.../Sir.../6000000012668075248...

lineage goes up to : Guy de Balliol
and, this lineage also runs over the Sinclair of Rosslyn - Roslin,
and, into Pendragon, and, up to Boudicca & Prasutagus of The Iceni

Brian Bayley says: Very interesting. Thanks for the post, Susan!

Susan Lynne Schwenger says: glad you found this interesting
- i've done quite a bit of work connecting the dots
here you can see, how it goes back into wallace
-- Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig is your 22nd great grandfather.

Susan Lynne Schwenger You → Lynda Mae Handy - Schwenger your mother → JAMES "Jim" EDWARD HANDY JR. her father → JAMES HANDY his father → Marrian Marion Ruthven-Handy-Satchell his mother → Alexander Ruthven her father → Robert Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → John Ruthven his father → George Ruthven his father → William Alexander Ruthven his father → William Ruthven his father → Mary Gray - Seaton - Ruthven his mother → Marion Gray her mother → Helen Ogilvy (Sinclair), Lady Ogilvy of Airlie her mother → Margaret Hepburn her mother → Patrick Hepburn, 1st Earl of Bothwell her father → Adam Hepburn, Master of Hailes, Sheriff of Berwick his father → Ellen Wallace of Elderslie his mother → Thomas Wallace, of Auchinbothy her father → daughter of Malcolm Wallace, heiress of Elderslie his mother → Helen Baillie, of Lamington her mother → William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington her father → Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprig his father
and, then goes up - William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington her father
→ Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, Heiress of Lamington his mother
→ Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. her father

William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington
is your 19th Great Grandfather
Isabella de Seton is your 19th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1330Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
Daughter of Sir William Seton and Katherine Sinclair

→

Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, 2nd Laird of Hoprighis father
is your 20th Great Grandfather
Elizabeth Wallace of Lamington, heiress of Lamington is your 20th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1295Elderslie, Paisley Parish, Renfrewshire, Scotland, (Present UK)Managed by: jessie whitmire
Daughter of Sir William "Braveheart" Wallace, Kt. is your 21st Great Grandfather
and Marion Cornellia Wallace (Braidfute) of Lamington is your 21st Great Grandmother
Sir William Baillie of Hoprig, Knight his father is your 21st Great Grandfather
→
Alexander de Baliol of Cavershis father is your 22nd Great Grandfather
Isabella de Strathbogie is your 22nd Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1245Chilham, Kent, , England
Daughter of Richard de Dover, Baron of Chilham and Matilda nic Máel Coluim, Countess of Angus
→
John de Baliol - his father - is your 23rd Great Grandfather
Devorguilla (Dearbhfhorghaill) of Galloway is your 23rd Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1218Fotheringhay Castle, Galloway, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Daughter of Alan, Lord of Galloway and Margaret de Huntingt

→
Hugh de Baliol of Barnard Castle aka Hugh Gainford de Bailleul (de Baliol), Lord of Biwell & Hiche
his father - is your 24th Great Grandfather
Cecily de Fontaines is your 24th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1195Richmond Castle, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Daughter of Aléaume I, seigneur de Fontaines and Laura de Saint-Valéry

→

Eustace de Baliol aka Eustache Helicourt de Bailleul, seigneur de Bailleul en Vimeu et de Hornoy
his father -is your 25th Great Grandfather
Perronnelle Fitzpiers is your 25 Great GrandmotherBirth: 1168
Shere Farmbridge,,Essex,England
Daughter of Piers de Lutegareshale and Matilda (Maud) NN

→

Bernard de Balliol, Baron of Bywell of Barnard Castle
his father - is your 26th Great Grandfather
Agnès de Picquigny is your 26th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1148Piquigny, FranceDaughter of Gérard I, Seigneur de Picquigny and Béatrix d'Aumale
→
Barnard de Balliol aka Bernard (Reginald) de Baliol (de Bailleul), I
his father - is your 27th Great Grandfather
Baroness Maud Bywell is your 27th Great Grandmother
Birth: circa 1090Bailleul,Nord,,France

→

FNU de Bailio
lhis father -is your 28th Great Grandfather

→

Hugh II de Baliol, of Bywell aka Guy de Baliol (de Bailleul)
his father -is your 29th Great Grandfather

→

Reginald de Balliol , Sheriff of Shropshire aka Rainald
(Renard, Reynold, Reginald) de Knightley (de Balliol), Sheriff of Shropshire
his father is your 30th Great Grandfather
Ameria de Montgomery is your 30th Great Grandmothe
rBirth: 1045Montgommery, Saint-Germain-de-Montgommery, Lower Normandy, France

Reginald de Balliol, Sheriff of Shropshire
his father - is your 30th Great Grandfather

→
Guy de Balliol
his father - is your 31st Great Grandfather

→

Wydo Baliol
his father - is your 32nd great grandfather

Wydo Baliol

Hello every One i am Related to William Wallace also i have done a YDNA111 Marker Test and i ahve a few Wallace Matches at a Genetic Distance that a common ancestor that i would share with them would be back here some where so with this discussion being under the discussion Tab for Wydo Baliol , my YDNA would come straight up here so i think it would be benificial to find a common ancestor between Wydo and the Wallace Line then other lines and Family's can be Verified my YDNA Haplogroup is R1b1a2 or R-M269 My YDNA Scott matches i share common ancestors with between 20-24 generations back from me to John le Scot born 1290 and his Father William so i know there where no non Paternal events in my Line due to no last name change until this time frame

Just so everyone knows ... at the present time the DNA propagation only goes back 10 generations on Geni, so you won't see "DNA differences" reported on profiles further back than that. That may change in the future, but that's the current constraint.

I Came accross this link last knight but i have read elsewhere that they kept there marriage a secret due to the events related to England under the rule of Edward Longshanks
see other formats option download PDF

https://archive.org/stream/genealogyofwalla00wall/genealogyofwalla0...

Please be careful about these old printed genealogies. This one was privately printed in 1902 by the author. In that period most of the published material is full of errors.

Allan, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but it would be a good idea to pull back a bit on the DNA claims.

In fact, the Conqueror's yDNA is still unknown. There is an idea he might have bee R-M269, but the methodology is a bit questionable and there is a great deal of doubt about whether it can even be called a "good guess".

When you look at a TiP report, you want to be sure you are really pushing the details. It's all about probabilities, not actual facts. There will be a big difference between a result that shows a 98 percent probability at 24 generations, and a result that shows 100 percent probability at 24 generations. And, of course, any probability is (by definition) a bit speculative, particularly in R-M269, which is by far the most common haplogroup in Europe.

Then too, some of the old genealogies and a lot of the DNA speculation that the Baillies, Balliols, and Wallaces have a common origin in something close to historic times is highly suspect.

I hope you won't be discouraged by my comments, It will be interesting to see your deep clade results, and see where they lead.

Not everything on the Internet is true, Allan. Yes, there are sites that say the Conqueror is R-M269 but it's a theory, not a fact. Drawing conclusions from DNA is tricky. You need both a high-resolution DNA match between two and preferably more people, and you need a high quality paper trail. So far that's not true of anyone who claims the Conqueror is R-M269.

You might find this article interesting. It explains some of the methodology behind the guess:
http://originhunters.blogspot.com/2013/07/conquering-williams-dna.html

And yes, everyone alive today is (probably) descended from Charlemagne, but that's meaningless in a DNA context because autosomal DNA starts to wash out after about 5 generations.No one alive today has autosomal DNA that goes back to Charlemagne. Then too, Charlemagne has no known male-line descendants so there are no good clues to his yDNA.

So, what I would tell you is that you need to be sure you understand what you are reading before you draw conclusions based on what you read.

Allan, my messages must be coming across as much harsher than I intend. I'm not trying to shoot down your work. I'm trying to caution you that your theories about the evidence are galloping far ahead of the actual evidence.

For example, you give a Wikipedia link you say shows the male line descendants of William the Conqueror. Except it doesn't. It shows Edward IV and Richard III. They were descendants of the Conqueror but they weren't male line descendants.

Now, you might think I'm just some guy who read something once then decided to pick on you, but that's not the case. I'm an Admin for the Scandinavian yDNA project and the G-Z725 project at FTDNA, and I'm one of Geni's medieval curators. My goal is to help you better understand what you are seeing.

I started a discussion about the Scott ancestry here:https://www.geni.com/discussions/166089

I recognized the problem when I realized the line mentioned here is the Scot's Hall family from Kent. I did some research on that family back in the 1980s when I was looking into the Lewknors, another family mangled in the same bad Victorian source.

The Only Sources that should be trusted were reffered to me by Donald K Wallace the Admin of The Wallace YDNA Group at FTDNA "The paper trails identified as classic Scot Wallace lineages are identified by Charles Rogers’ BOOK OF WALLACE and the Wallace chapter of Horace Hayden’s
VIRGINIA GENEALOGIES, both available on Google Books"

There is much better modern research.

So you are going to tell Some one of the Surname Wallace that they do not know what they are Talking about who also is the Admin of the Wallace YDNA Project ! and you can not get new info from people that have been dead for 700+ years other than any new info that may be obtained from the Science of DNA

I have plenty of Wallace ancestors myself. Descent does not make someone an expert. You are right you cannot invent new info. That's what those old 19th century people tried to do. But the records either exist to support the claim, or they don't. In this case they don't.

Laura Kaufman says on the Medieval Duplicates Discussion https://www.geni.com/discussions/158450?msg=1207986

"I hate to do this ...but which is the real Malcolm Wallace???

Sir Malcolm Wallace, Laird of Elderslie
or
Malcolm Wallace of Elderslie, Laird of Elderslie"