Nancy Lincoln (Hanks) - nancy Hanks Lincoln

Vicky thank you for this point. Is there documentation references we can use for the tree on Geni?

I am looking for an Askins married to a Hanks. The Askins is said to be of the first Askins in America in 1658 named John Askins arrival place was Maryland. One of his siblings or grand children is said to have married a Hanks or someone that caused a relation to Nancy. it is said by many family members that there is a connection to Nancy Hanks through the Askins Family. It is also documented in Howard Robard Hughes Jr family papers that his grand other Martha Staton Askins Hughes is related to Nancy Hanks through John Askins family some where. I am trying to find that connection if it exsists. I would appreciate any help on finding this connection if there is truely one to be found.

I'm just throwing this out there for comment. I've felt for years the proof needed by the pros probably doesn't exist to determine Nancy's parents. I'm sure Pres. Lincoln could name is maternal grandparents but didn't. He told Herndon " My Mother was born illegitimate to a large Virginia farmer".
All I have is a family story that Abe's mother was born in Flour Gap, Montgomery Co., Va., known today as Piper's Gap, Carrol Co., Va. The Hanks families of the 1780s produced several Nancys about this time in different places. Our story included a Lucy Shipley who first married a Hanks in Virginia, then later, in Ky. married a Sparrow niether of whom were fathers of Nancy. Spin it anyway you like, or throw it out. Richard Berry, an Uncle of Lucy Shipley, did sign Tom Lincoln and Nancy Hanks marriage bond as Guardian.

Here's a publication about the Shipley connection

http://archive.org/stream/lincolnkinsman04warr#page/8/mode/2up

Thank you Ms. Howton. I was unaware of this book. To me, understanding Lucy was pregnant and married Mr. Sparrow to avoid the penalties of being known as a "spinster", then moving to Missouri (I think), Nancy would have been about 5 years old, left in the care of who? For those of us who think Nancy's mother is Lucy Shipley, and Lucy's Uncle is Richard Berry, the fact he signed the bond as Guardian is very significant. This info should be pursued, not dismissed.

I think an understanding of how skimpy the paper trail was on the frontier helps us all conceptualize the significance of kinship ties better. From my quick review of Lincoln's mother, she was illiterate and had an excellent reputation in her community, so at the very least she was "raised well."

Nancy Hanks Lincoln was not illiterate, and taught her children to read, and write. Lincoln states this. The Hanks family all could read and write. Their spelling wasn't the best, but they were far from illiterate!

Lincoln DID state his Grandmother was Lucy Hanks, daughter of Joseph and Ann Hanks. There are no Shipley's in the family tree! Ann Lee Hanks was the daughter of William Lee, and Joseph was in his will, which also verifies this fact. Ann Lee was named for her Grandmother, Ann Lee, called Nancy, as a pet name. Ann Lee Hanks was called Nanny, as a pet name, also. Lucy gets her name from Lucy Gryms Lee. Ann Lee Hanks returned to the Lee family, when Joseph Hanks died, and her son Joseph Hanks, took her there. There is a very good paper trail, like Capt. Abraham Lincoln, was married to Bathsheba Herring, not a Shipley, and there was no second wife, because she outlived him. Elizabeth Hanks married Thomas Sparrow, and they are buried together, next to Nancy Hanks Lincoln, as they also died of Milksick. Nancy Hanks, the Aunt, married Levi Hall, and both are buried on the other side of Nancy Hanks Lincoln. Lucy Hanks married Henry Sparrow, when she was served an indictment by the state of Kentucky, for being an unwed mother. Her marriage made them drop the charges against her, and she WROTE her papers, so she was not illiterate! She would not have been served those papers, if she were a widow!!!!

Have you ever seen this "bond", for Nancy? Both Dennis Hanks and Nancy Hanks were "baseborn" children, and lived with Elizabeth Hanks Sparrow, and Thomas Sparrow, who had no children of their own. Why do you think they were with Nancy Hanks Lincoln, when they died? There was no Nancy Sparrow Friend, as Jesse Friend married Mary (Polly) Hanks. Richard Berry was married to Rachel, not Lucy Shipley. Nancy Hanks, the Aunt of Nancy Hanks Lincoln, was the mother of Dennis Hanks, his father being the brother of Polly's husband. The only person who had a second wife was Thomas Lincoln. I have written a book, and studied the Hanks family for over 30 years. It is in the process of publication. I feel bad that the Shipley fantasy has led so many people from finding thier ancestors!! All she wanted was to be related to Lincoln.

Like I said "spin it any way you like, or throw it out." It was what my gGrandfather left us in his writings. I've been digging around for Lincoln material a little while myself, and it seems burning Courthouses,and secret liasons may have prevailed over the truth.
I am not sold on either Lucy, yet. The bond does keep it interesting.
In what script or statement did Abe name his gGrandparents?
The marrige bond is in the Couthouse of Springfield, Ky. It was found in Washington Co., Ky. I suppose you could Google it.
Good Luck with your book. I want a signed copy.

Not only the marriage bond, but the court documents, for Lucy Hanks indictment, and court proceedings are there. Even the letter Lucy wrote to the courts! it's in my book, as these are valuable to all Hanks families, to get them on the right track. there are six documents of Hanks, in Amelia County, and they all sold their land before 1800. They are also cousins of Joseph Hanks, not direct descentents in the Lincoln genealogy. Herndon, Lea, and William Barton all looked for Shipleys and Hanks, in Amelia County, VA, and found none that fit the Hitchcock story, and I didn't either. Our first American ancestor came to Virginia in 1643, Thomas Hanks. Way earlier than the Hitchcock story, and there are lots of documents. The trouble has been everyone is looking in the wrong place!

So..... Ms. Paulson, you are saying you have discovered a Court Document or County Archive Document that states clearly "Lucy Hanks is a daughter of Joseph Hanks and Ann Lee?"

No, I did not discover it, William Barton did, and there are three documents, not just one, and her marriage bond date confirms with the dates on the court papers. The second document is written by Lucy Hanks, to the courts. She was not illiterate. This is not theory, this is a clearly documented fact.

Oh, Mr. Poole, there wer 8 Nancy Hanks is this time period. the Hanks family seemed to have a habit of naming their children the same thing, over and over. My generation is the only one without a William, in 13 generations. My dad was a William and I have a William grandson. Brothers and sisters used the same names, so you have 11 children using the same names for thier children, thus say 9 Williams, 8 Nancys, 9 Elizabeths, ect., so then they used Nicknames! Like the Marys were often called Polly, my dad was Bud, his middle name. My grandson, Will. My mother always called me Lena. There was Rosalia, the mother, Rosalaura, a daughter, called Laura, and Rosalia, the daughter, called Rose, and Rose Ann, called Rosie. Keeps you on your toes.

OK....In Mr. Barton's discoveries, did he reference a historical document or Court record, Land record, Bible record, Church record, Birth Marriage Death record or Will, even a letter written of the day, stating Lucy Hanks is a Daughter of Joseph and Ann Lee Hanks?

All of the above, and you forgot census records. The will of Joseph omits Lucy. She is present everywhere else. The reords of other Hanks members also verify she is the oldest daughter, and Thomas is the oldest son. Barton, Herndon, and Lea all have documents. They each tried to follow the Hitchcock story, and this is how I discovered this, and they could find no documents to verify any of it. She didn't have aany documents for them to use, either.

A Census before 1790 would certainly be a rare item, much less among migraters from say...1755 to 1789, don't you think? "An Easy task", says Adin Baber, "just follow the steps from Courthouse to Courthouse". In his failed adventure, He gave us the conjecture Abraham Hanks and Sarah Harper as parents of Nancy Hanks Lincoln. A somewhat elderly married couple far from being large Va. farmers.
J. Henry Lea tells several stories coming from other so called researchers. He lost my attention when he said Robert Shipley was an immigrant of the 1740s. Probably something he got from Hitchcock.
Barton, nothing new here, he just took everybody elses ressearch and tried to go one step further, reitterating how possible the scenarios are.
Herndon, through a series of interviews with "Post Lucy and Nancy" survivors of the late 1860s, only concluded what his Law partner had already told him.
Scripps, an interesting and very trustworthy type person. I believe Abe told him everything, as well as what not to publish. What a loyal soul, he took it to his grave.
All of this info has been poured over and disected before, many times, by many very smart people. To the best of my knowledge, to date, no official document has surfaced to confirm Lucy Hanks is, or isn't a daughter of Joseph and Ann Lee Hanks or a daughter of Robert Shipley.
My question is this: With all the Hanks inhabiting their little corner of Kentucky, Why did Richard Berry, truly an uncle of a girl named Lucy Shipley, sign Tom and Nancy Hanks Lincoln's marriage bond as guardian?

Census records are not that difficult to find, sir. They are not kept at courthouses, they are in their state archives. I've seen some of A. Baber's work. Frankly, he had my family tree very wrong. He has my great grandmother as daughter of Thomas or Absalom Hanks. He wasn't even close. She died in 1954, so she would have been like 200 years old. That's another problem with the Shipley story. She uses a Joseph, which was a cousin, that would have been in his 70's, fathering this child, that's not eldrely, that's just plain too old! And he didn't live in Amelia County for about thiry years, by then. You have to realize that book was published in 1899, and she had no access to documents, land records, marriage licences, she went by what she thought was what would connect her to Lincoln. both Lea and Barton asked her for her documents, and she had none. They both state this, in thier writing about it. There are census records of Amelia County, Virginia, that prove no Hanks lived there, and the Joseph Hanks family Never lived there. His cousins lived there for a short time. There are 6 entries for Hanks, in Amelia County, and they all left there way before Hitchcock placed them there.

Please read my previous post again. Prior to 1790, what we call a Census was more of a Muster Roll or Tax Poll. From the 1750s and earlier, large migrations of people from Penn, Jersey, Md, came into Va. and on to NC. mostly Quaker, evading dishonest Gov't and religious persecutions. As we get closer to the 1770s, new counties are forming in new territories quickly, and people move around from one county to the next, sometimes without even relocating. Being poor, some would have their kids raised by kinfolk or other families. During the 1770s War is at hand which created chaos and displacement of many. After 1782, Govt was very disorganized and records were burned, buried or lost. The Archives weren't created until the 1930s, and my reference to Adin Baber was his quote not mine. As you can tell by my previous post, I am not a fan of any of these Authors, nor stating which Lucy is which. The purpose of this discussion is to sort out the Hanks and at least come to a consensus who Nancy's mother really is. I have no document or reference to prove anything, nor have I read anything that references such. I don't want to read another book that surmises from other Authors. There is evidence to infer either one of these Lucys could be Nancy's mom. What do you have that separates them? and again, Why would Richard Berry, Lucy Shipley's uncle, sign a marriage bond for a 22 year old woman as guardian?

So goes the Shipley thing. Richard Berry was not married to a Shipley, his wife's name was Rachael. Both Richard and his brother Fransis were Master Carpenters, and Thomas Lincolon worked for them. The wedding was also in their home. They most likely had a nice house, and offered thier emploee a nice place to have their wedding, and any adult could sign that marriage bond. It doesn't matter is he signed it, as he wasn't married to a Shipley, so I find it a strange question!

I can see we are getting nowhere. I suppose in 1806, if someone needed an instant Guardian, one only need raise his hand. My curiosity is...at what age does a woman NOT need a Guardian? Nancy was 22. Was there an age rule? Most of the Guardian assignments I've seen were of a Town Meeting or Probate type of thing, where they meet once a month to cover the community business. By official document, someone would be declared a Guardian, usually a relative, and sometimes a third party, also a relative, provides a Bond in the form of money and signed by the Town Magistrate. Or something to that effect.
You are correct....The Richard Berry who signed the marriage bond was a Jr. married to a Mary "Polly" Ewing. Richard Sr. died in 1798...his wife is Rachel Shipley, she died in 1804. That makes him a cousin, not an Uncle, by Shipley standards.
On the other hand, there were enough Hanks in the area to fill up a Basketball arena. Why not have a Hanks as Guardian? Maybe because the Berrys were closer relatives?
In 1860, Abe's campaign biographer asked for his ancestry and Abe shrugged it off, like who wants to be bored with that stuff. Then asked again, he complied, but Abe said what was to be published, and what not. I wonder if Mr. Scripps writings or notes exist. Abe was reluctant to admit his Mother was illegitimate. I feel there is more to this, like rape or incest. The records we need may be missing on purpose.

First, Richard and Rachel Berry had 8 children, being Sarah, John, Joanna, Rachel, Richard Jr., Francis, James, and Edward. There is no legal document stating that Nancy Hanks was ever assigned any legal guardian, at any point in time, in Virginia, or Kentucky. She stayed at Richard Senoirs home, not Richard Jr., who signed the marriage bond. Kentucky Law, at that time required the signiture of kin, or an aquantance, that could verify that the woman, bride was of legal age to marry. And ther are guardianship bonds, in the Hanks family tree. Joseph's father, John Hanks, was under the legal guardianship of his oldest brother, William, when their father, also named William passed away. Ther were none for Nancy, or her cousin, Dennis Hanks, who was also a "baseborn child" of Lucy's sister Nancy Hanks Hall. I like to study the history surrounding each era of each family, as it rounds out what these families are doing, and why. I believe Joseph Hanks moved to that area, which was still considered part of Virginia at that time, because of the Quebec Acts, which were the stimulus for the American Revolution. Boy, there were just a huge bunch of illigetimate children, in this era. Kind of like the 70"s that we remember. It was like cononists gone wild. The Hanks family never moved, until then. No Hanks signed Lucy's marriage bond, either. Yes, who understands, as all of them could read and write. I hope this helps you out. if Thomas Hanks worked for them, and their wedding was there, and Sarah Hanks was born 8 months later, that's most likely how the two of them met, also. The Kentucky records are pretty much intact, not burned in fires, like some of the Virginia records. I hope this helps you. it deffinately would be in probate records, ilke the records of Lucy, her mother.

i found the Robert Poole site, and see why he is totally confused, as it is very wrong.Joseph Hanks was the son of John and Catherine Hanks, born at North Farnham Parish, Richmond, Virginia, on Dec. 20th, 1725. He married Ann Lee, daughter of William Henry Lee in 1758. There children are thomas Hanks, the only birth recorded at North Farnham Parish, in 1759, and married Elizabeth Ryan, Lucy Hanks, mother of Nancy Hanks Lincoln, and later married Henry Sparrow, Joshua Hanks, William Hanks who married Elizabeth Hall, Mary (Polly) Hanks who married Jesse Friend, Nancy Hanks who married Levi Hall, Charles Hanks, Joseph Hanks who marris Polly Young, and Elizabeth Hanks, who married Thomas Sparrow. There were no half brothers, as this was the only marriage. There was no James hanks in this family, either. Lucy Hanks, the oldest daughter, was brought to the courts for "fornication", and is documented. This does not happen to a widow. Her sister, Nancy, also has a "baseborn" child, Dennis Hanks. Lincoln himself clearly stated his mother was the daughter of Lucy Hanks. These are all documented historical facts. The Berry's were not her guardians, she siply worked there, as a seamstress, for men who were master craftmen of funiture, coffins, and other wood products. And they were not married to Shipley's either. The book you use for reference has Lucy Shipley married to Richard Berry, when , in fact, he was married to Rachel. Both Rachel and Richard were dead, before Nancy Hanks married Tom Lincoln, who also worked for the Berry family. That's where he learned his skills.

What "Robert Poole" site are talking about?

Interesting discussion here! I am not related to the Hanks, but my great grand uncle married into the family. I have read all the conflicting histories in print. I personally have found in my family research that what ancestors write and pass down is not always correct. The facts, if available, need to overrule written family remembrances. I look forward to Vicky's book as an addition to the factual search. I have heard rumors Vicky's book will include DNA evidence(?), if so, and it is confirmed that will trump all conjecture. Personally, I await the book before making any conclusions or engage in any argumentation.

I agree with you, Kenneth HIllary.

Are you a Hillary from Kansas? A descendent of Joseph Hanks, son of Absalom Hanks? If so, you would be, in fact a second cousin descendent of Mr. Lincoln. Absalom and Nancy Hanks Lincoln were first cousins. Joseph, his son, a second cousin to the President. I would not know how many generations removed you are, from that point. I do not have the evidence in my book, however the DNA study confirms the descentents in the book, which are the Virginia line of the Hanks family, is the correct family. I found in my research to verify every fact with at least two documents, as the family identfication isn't always right, but helps point you in the right direction. Also, ther are those who begin with completely wrong information, to begin with, and run into utter frustration, and give up. Most of this occurs in the Hanks line, due to the Hitchcock book, which is completely wrong. But ther has been little offering of any other resource, when it comes to the Hanks genealogy. I enjoyed sharing my information with my cousins, but it took relatives outside my immediate family to tell me to put it in book form, so everyone can use it! This first book should be available in about two weeks, and I have so much more information, I'll write book #2, to share this with everyone. Iur children won't have to work so hard, to find out what they share in American History!

Looking forward to your book(s)!! My great grandfathers step brother (William Henry Hilleary born 1860) married a Mary Elizabeth Hanks in Illinois in 1879. Thus I have no direct lineage to the Hanks but the connection to the Hanks family and Lincoln intrigues me greatly! . And yes, it is the Hilleary family that moved on to Kansas. Thus my cousins from that line (Bernice M. who I think you know, is one of those cousins) are related to the Hanks family. Yes from Absalom and Joseph Hanks. Mary Elizabeth appears to be Joseph's daughter?

My great grandfathers line stayed in Illinois. Hilleary, Hillery and Hillary are all the same family. Siblings actually adopted different spellings!

I will keep my eye out for your book! I can't wait!!!

Yes, Mary Elizabeth and Robert Lee were the children of Joseph and Sarah Matheny Hanks. Joseph's brother was William Henry Hanks and his wife Rosalia Matheny Hanks. They are my great great grandparents. After the Civil War, William Henry left Ohio, to help his brother, Joseph, with his farm, due to his illness. This is where he met Sarah's sister. He remained on property he bought next to his brother's farm, and waited for Rosalia to be old enough to marry. I do chat with Bernice, online. Absalom was the two brothers' father, and he had a twin, named Solomon. Yes, even Hanks was Hancks for two generations in America, then the "c" seemed to disappear, alltogether. This required me to search, in England, under the old spelling, for records.