Descendentes de luso-flamengos

Not in this case, Jaim. There's a clear manuscript (I'll post the image to Willem's profile) that shows his name - and there are many instances of his surname in the Bruges area at that time (they haven't found the proofs of the right connections between them, though). The name 'de Kersemakere' points to a profession of 'candle maker' - which may have been the profession of Willem's ancestors. Interestingly, the name Casmaca is phonetically closer to the current pronunciation of that profession - 'kaarsmaker'.

Thanks for kicking down the info, George...much appreciated.

J

Jaim is Tom Jobim's cousin too... :-))
http://www.geni.com/path/Tom+Jobim+is+related+to+Jaim+Harlow+Y+J2b2...

Who is Tom Jobim?

Hmmmmm, Jaim, you need to get up to speed with the Bossa Nova :-)
Tom's most known song is 'The Girl of Ipanema' - but I think everything else he wrote is simply wonderful too!

(Tom is how Brazilians like to call him - but we probably know him better as Antonio Jobim)

Thanks George, I recognize the name now :)

J

Jaim Harlow (Y-J2b2a*, m-K2b1b), Lamento mas não tenho informação…no meu site da família Viana em Portugal, gerido pelo meu primo Tiago Filipe Viana Abrantes da Silva, que eu convidei para o Geni, é que estuda estes costados e recentemente acrescentou alguns brasões dos colonizadores, existentes no tecto da Capela-mor da Igreja das Angústias, Açores, Ilha do Faial, cujo link para os brasões deixo aqui, embora não sei se funciona:

http://www.myheritage.com.pt/document-5016_516253_516253/capela-mor...

Se não funcionar eu meto

George J. Homs: dentro desses brasões está um dos VAN DER HAEGEN, que vou meter, no meu álbum Outros Brasões de Família.
Obrigado pelas vossas palavras…:)

Olá Eduardo,

Eu enviei pedido de adesão, em seguida, examinar, o site que você menciona: http://www.myheritage.com.pt/document-5016_516253_516253/capela-mor...

Obrigado pela informação.

J

Very thank you George for the explain about Tom Jobim!

Aha "the girl of Ipanema" I know well, not the girl of course, the song. I googled Astrud Gilberto (now I know she was married to João Gilberto) birthname Weinert, from a German father. Learned again something today.
Now my question is: what do we have to blame on the Bossa Nova?

I have a neighbour who is Van den Haagen da Silva and has already found many relatives in Netherlands - is this the same family with a different writing?
I'm kind of lost for I have not follow this discussion from the begining but , what is the relation of the azorean Raposos to flemish people? I have my azorean Raposo line back to the 1500s...

and concerning Tom Jobim, his whole name was Antonio Carlos Brasileiro de Almeida Jobim...

Ola Luciana!
About your neighbour... If he/she found connexions to Van den Haagen in the Netherlands, I would suppose this is related to relatively recent emigration? This surname (and its variants) is pretty common!
In the case of the Açoran descendancy, the surname really became "da Silveira" - and that happened about 550 years ago.
I'm coming across quite a lot of Raposo on the Açores in the 1500 timeframe, but I haven't concentrated yet on identifying the earliest connexion with a Flemish ascendant - but I'll get to that shortly :-)

Sorry if I bring tumult to such an orderly debate, but I can't help adding something I read at Saudades da Terra, of the Azorean priest Gaspar Frutuoso (1522-1591), volume IV:
Page 51: "The Gagos and Bocarros are from the city of Beja, wherefrom Luiz Gago came to this island; he was the son of Estêvão Ruiz Gago, born in Beja do Alentejo, called do Trato for being a rich and powerful man and to have treated with the King at Mina, Caboverde and other places, where he used to send his ships; also called Raposo, for being married to Catarina Gomes Raposa. He came to this island, where he had a big house and family and became its richest man.
Page 52: "Jacome Dias Correia (...) had from his wife Breatiz Roiz Raposa the following sons: Jordão Jácome, Barão Jácome, Dona Isabel, wife of João Silva Canto of Terceira island and Catarina Gomes Raposa, who was the wife of Manuel Vaz Pacheco; and Aldonça Jácome, the eldest, who was the wife of Agostinho Imperial. Jordão Jácome Raposo, first son of Jácome Dias, married a second time Margarida da Ponte, daughter of Pero da Ponte, the Old, from Vila Franca, e of Ana Martins, daughter of Martim Anes de Souza, and of their daughters two are nuns."
On Jewish origin, I found the following at the index of volume II: "Captain Jordão Jacome Raposo, married to Margarida de Bethencourt, great-grand-daughter of the new-christian Gaspar Dias, page 76."

Obrigado, Marcos I think we're pulling a lot of information together. You may have seen that building the list i the 'Governantes dos Açores' project has helped me a great deal in doing that. There are obviously many holes to be filled, still :-)
Thanks for the feedback on Gaspar Dias. I've been searching for decent information around the early jewish community, but the data are very fractured (or, at least, I haven't found a solid set of data). I suspect that we might understand more of this by looking at the Portuguese sources (before the jews arrived at the Açores) - but perhaps Jaim Harlow knows how to do that (for instance, I understand that surnames like Machado, Oliveira... may suggest jewish origins.
Interestingly, on yesterday's New York Times frontpage, there was an article by a journalist tracing her Jewish/Portuguese origins, and she was referencing the Açores as one of the places where her family came from.

I really don´t know much about the Azores, except that the two islands I visited in June were beautiful, the people friendly and the wine very good.
One of my son's ancestors Alberto del Canto, founder of the city of Saltillo in Mexico, was born in Terceira Island and, it is said, the original name was Kent and changed to Do Canto when the first Englishman Kent in Portugal married a Portuguese Jew.
Does anybody have any comments or knowledge about this subject?

Wow, Graciela, there you are throwing a challenge! :-)
Dinner time here (late), but I'll look at it in the morning :-)

Thanks, George! Any info on that side of the family will be great.

The Canto e Mello family is well known in Brazil, Graciela, I suppose there's lots of data about them since the Marquise of Santos, the favourite of our first Emperor, was Domitila de Castro Canto e Mello. Her ancestry should be on the web. On the Castro side, she was said to have the same roots as Inês de Castro, the unfortunate mistress of Pedro I of Portugal whose cadaver was crowned as Queen. By the way, Lúcia, Domitila is in our all-encompassing tree, isn't she?

Trabalhei muito hoje em torno da Marquesa de Santos. Embora sua relação com D. Pedro já estava bem descrita, sua árvore pessoal estava muito falha! Muitas fusões a fazer com perfis já existentes. Acredito que muitas novas ligações tenham sido criadas agora.

Lucia Sweetheart: Maybe you worked so hard that you confused your replies. I was asking on how to go about searching in the portuguese archives the ancestors of my third great grandfather who arrived to Buenos Aires at the end of the 1600's and of another duplicate profile but it was not about the Marquesa de Santos. It is a shame. I have been to Brazil several times, I was born in Bolivia and I don't even speak Portunhol. Please reply to me either in English or Spanish. Thank you and best regards, Rolandinho (hahaha)

DA CAMARA.
A question about this name (we have over 1,100 profiles on Geni with this name!).
I understand from the Wikipedia profile of João Gonçalves Zarco, 1º donatário do Funchal that he obtained the right for his family to use this name. It was related to a place called 'Camara dos Lobos', on Funchal. It seems it was a place with many wolfs. But, what I don't understand is what 'Camara' means in this context?
Anybody any thoughts? It's because what's puzzling me is that there was a 'van der Camere' family in medieval Bruges (you never know!)

It's a guess... câmara can mean bedroom, sometimes.

George, our "câmara" is your "chamber", meaning here "hole in the rocks"
(steep slope, escarpment) very near of the ocean; some kind of hiding place where sea-wolfs can remain and rest. Greetings, Deisi

Obrigado, Deisi! OK, I then think I'll abandon my thinking around a Flemish origin LOL (but, it's always good to check all possibilities anyway! :-) )

George, please, don't quit.
We all need your gut-feeling and determination.
After all, we never know the next portal.
Today, for instance, two of those doors are unexpectly and unexplained oppen to me: 29th ggf and ggm from...Medina&Damasco !!! Look:
'Abd al-Malik I bin Marwân I bin al-Hakam

Allow me to intrude again: Câmara means arch as well, and that may lead to Rua dos Arcos, in Lisbon, where there was indeed a waterway supported by stone archs. In that street there was a synagogue as well, and some of the people who went to it became known as the guys from Rua dos Arcos (pronounced rooadozarcos), and finally Zarcos. I think I read that on a book by Mascarenhas Barreto on Columbus.

Thanks again Marcos. That's I call erudite explanation. So, I'll never forget: this family only chanced topographical names, from the street to the cave. Greetings, Deisi

Sorry for the late reply. I forgot this. But I have no more information. But,
Rita Van Zeller, Rita Van Zeller
May be can help
…:)