Jechiel "The Posek" Ben Matityahu Ashkenazi Treves (TREVES), יחיאל טרבס-אשכנזי, הפוסק - Rashi grandson - Jechiel "The Posek" Ashkenazi Treves ?

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Dear Group.

I have a question stimulated by some items I have seen on GENI.

Two of Rashi's daughters were Miriam and Yocheved.

1. Jechiel "The Posek" Ashkenazi Treves, as Curated by: Ofir Friedman,
is shown to be a g-g-g-g-grandson of Rashi via Miriam, thru Jechiel's
father, R' Matityahu Hagadol Treves (Jechiel -> Matityahu -> Moshe ->
Yehuda -> YomTov -> Miriam -> Rashi).

2. Furthermore, Jechiel, this time as Curated by: Yigal Burstein, is
also shown to be a g-g-grandson of Rashi via Yocheved, thru Jechiel's
mother, a daughter of RYbM (Jechiel -> girl -> Yitzchok (RYbM) ->
Yocheved -> Rashi). For illustration purposes I will refer to Jechiel's
mother as MRS MATITYAHU HAGADOL TREVES.

3. Jechiel "The Posek" Ashkenazi Treves, as Curated by: Ofir Friedman,
is also shown to be a g-grandson-in-law of Rashi, by being married to a
daughter of RYbM (Jechiel + girl -> Yitzchok (RYbM) -> Yocheved ->
Rashi). For illustration purposes I will refer to Jechiel's wife as MRS
JECHIEL.

This would imply that two sisters, MRS JECHIEL and MRS MATITYAHU HAGADOL
TREVES, both daughters of RYbM, married a father and son. In other
words, Jechiel married his mother's sister, an act prohibited by
Biblical law.

So, can anyone shed light or insight (aside from stating GENI is not
recognized source material) on the ancestry of the wife, father and
mother of Jechiel "The Posek" Ashkenazi Treves?

Moishe Miller

8/1/2012 at 2:44 PM

RYbM is said to have died young, leaving four children. His wife is then said to have remarried Yehuda of Paris and had more children.

ie.

Rashi's daughter, Jochaved BAT SALOMON (b. 1065 Troyes, France) married Rabbi Hayashish Meir ben Samuel (b. 1065 Mainz, Germany, d. 1135).

Their children:

* RIBAM (Rabbi Isaac II ben Meir) (b. Ramerupt, d. Regensburg, Germany)
* Hanah or Hanale(b. 1080) married Shmuel ben Simcha.
* Yaakov (Rabbenu TAM) (b. 1096 Ramerupt, France, d. 9 Jun. 1171 Troyes, France) m. Miriam bat Yosef. Yaakov remarried.
* Shlomo
* Miriam m. ??? son of Simcha ben Samuel.
* RASHBAM (Shmuel) (b. 1080 Ramerupt, France, d. 1158)

After Isaac ll ben Meir (RYbM/RIBAM)'s early death, his wife remarried Yehudah of Paris (b. 1115).

Then,

1. RIBAM'S DAUGHTER:
- RYbM/RIBAM's daughter married Rabbi Jechiel Treves, the Posek (d. 1189 Paris), who was the son of Rabbi Matityahu Hagadol Treves (d. 1150).

2. YEHUDA OF PARIS's DAUGHTER:
-the daughter of Yehuda of Paris married Rabbi Matityahu TREVES (ASHKENAZI)*, who may also have subsequently married the daughter (or maybe just descendant...) of Rabbi Isaac BEN MEIR (RIBAM).

* MATITYAHU TREVES ll (ASHKENAZI)
- Rabbi Matityahu TREVES (ASHKENAZI), II (b. 1115) [son of Yom Tov who was (b. 1090, d. ca. 1140 Paris)and the grandson of Miriam and Judah ben Nathan (b. 1065 Mainz, d. ca. 1105) ]

Does this seem right? It came from a Templar source when I queried this issue on Google.

8/1/2012 at 9:45 PM

(1) Does anyone have talmudic references to help sort out the issues raised in the first posting? ie. On the definitive ancestry of the wife, father and
mother of Jechiel "The Posek" Ashkenazi Treves?

(2) Isaac [Ribam / RYbM / RIBAM / RIVAM (Rabbi Isaac II ben Meir)] died young, and according to some sources had four children, but in "Rashi", by Maurice Liber he is said to have had 7 children.

ie. 4 sons, or 7 children?

(3) Did his widow, Jochebed, remarry into Rashi's family and have more children?

(4) After her death, did Jochebed's second husband marry back into Jochebed & RIBAM's branch?

----------------------------------

FAMILY TREES:

1. http://www.davidicdynasty.org/rashifamily.php ( Davidic Dynasty Tree)

2. Rashi Tree, By Maurice Liber - http://books.google.com/books?id=_LKr2hmXMa8C&pg=PA227&lpg=...

3. http://www.frumkin.org.il/Files/frnevbe.pdf (Frumkin Family)

4. http://www.loebtree.com/rashi.html#rashi (Loeb Tree)

--Three Rashi Family Tree diagrams uploaded to documents in the Rashi Project.
http://www.geni.com/projects/THE-RASHI-LEGACY-Tzarfati-Kalonymos-Tr...

RASHI SOURCES:

*Sefer Rashi, edited by Rabbi Y. L. Hacohen Maimon (Jerusalem: Mossad Harav Kook, 1957).

*Maurice Liber, Rashi, translated by Adele Szold (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1938, first published 1906)

*E. M. Lipschutz, Raschi (Warsaw: Verlag Tuschijah, 1912). Lipschutz's book was republished in Sefer Rashi.

*Ezra Shereshevsky's, Rashi: The Man and His World (New York: Sepher-Hermon Press, 1982)

*http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_...

8/5/2012 at 4:23 AM

The Tree branches surrounding Rashi's profile, especially the Treves, Kalonimus etc. have long been in a mess. Merges of wrong Matityahus, Yehudas etc. and mixing generation descendants of RIBAN and RIBAM have caused the accumulation of numerous errors. At a time, several of us tries to stop this "flood" of wrong merges by blocking key profiles - apparently with only moderate success. I believe that so far we managed to control the generations from Rashi's grandparents to his grandchildren. Generations further down the Tree deserve careful validation and correction.

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